In this episode, AJ and Mike break down the realities of the life of an author. You’ll hear them discuss their own approaches to time management and share what impact it’s had on their personal lives. They also share their own strategies for prioritization of all the tasks that go into authorship and how they accomplished all they have in their respective careers.
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Ink In Your Veins Podcast with Rachel Herron
Never Die Easy, Don Yeager
Bragging Rights, Lisa Bragg
AJ Harper’s Writing Sprint Marathon (October 19, 2024)
AJ Harper, website
AJ’s Socials:
Mike Michalowicz, website
Mike’s Socials:
Mike Michalowicz (00:01):
Welcome back to the Don't Write That book podcast where you can learn how to write your bestseller and own your authorship. Follow along with us as we give you an insider's view of the book industry. Now, here are your hosts, Myself, Mike Michalowicz and AJ Harper.
Mike Michalowicz (00:16):
Today we're gonna be talking about making the time to write, to be an author for authorship. Because it's not, it's more than writing, actually. We have a list of things that we wanna review that authorship includes, but it can be a full-time endeavor, and it's become that for me. First, I wanna introduce my co-host, AJ Harper in the room.
AJ Harper (00:35):
Hi Mike.
Mike Michalowicz (00:35):
Good morning.
AJ Harper (00:36):
Good morning.
Mike Michalowicz (00:37):
This is our third episode for the day that we're recording. And, uh, it's funny you were mentioning that usually the third episode's our best, or the second one, the first one's a little clunky. We've been hitting out of the park today.
AJ Harper (00:50):
We did it today.
Mike Michalowicz (00:50):
And I wonder, I wonder what it was, why we hit it hard today?
AJ Harper (00:55):
Oh, you know, I have a theory
Mike Michalowicz (00:56):
Why,
AJ Harper (00:57):
Uh, we had a conversation. We normally go almost right to it. That's right. But we had a talk because I was dealing with some stuff, so we were catching up on some personal things in the little lobby area, not in this room. That's right. Just had it, it wasn't even that long. It was 10 minutes,
Mike Michalowicz (01:16):
But it was deep and important. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I was thinking maybe that was it too.
AJ Harper (01:21):
Yeah. We probably need to but plan to have 10 to 15 minutes where we just,
Mike Michalowicz (01:24):
I gotta cry one time.
AJ Harper (01:26):
You got, you.
Mike Michalowicz (01:27):
You have to curse ones? Like something you never do is curse. So if I get one curse outta you, we're there. If I cry once, we're there,
AJ Harper (01:33):
My friends and my wife were going, he doesn't know her at all.
Mike Michalowicz (01:40):
I get to see you
AJ Harper (01:41):
Kept me on a Friday.
Mike Michalowicz (01:42):
Oh my God. I get to see you in that situation just going to town. Um, what I admire about you is you deliver even at the Compromise of Sleep,
AJ Harper (01:59):
That's not good.
Mike Michalowicz (02:00):
It's maybe not a healthy thing,
AJ Harper (02:02):
But I, and I rarely do it these days,
Mike Michalowicz (02:04):
But you deliver, um, period. And that I find remarkable.
AJ Harper (02:09):
I haven't always though, that's always been a struggle for me. Deadlines and all that stuff.
Mike Michalowicz (02:14):
Okay. Well, you're, you today deliver, even with all this life stuff going on, I think, was it in All In? What was the book prior to that? Was it Clockwork Vis expanded? Oh, was that Clockwork, Revised and Expanded?
AJ Harper (02:30):
Yeah. That was one of the hardest of all our books.
Mike Michalowicz (02:34):
I can't believe the work you did considering all the life circumstances that were going on. And we were talking about it through it, and you simply said, this is actually my escape now.
AJ Harper (02:45):
Yeah
Mike Michalowicz (02:46):
So that's, I find that remarkable. I I don't know many people that can do that.
AJ Harper (02:50):
Thanks, Mike. Yeah. Appreciate it. Um, I mean, you're always, but you always, you'll always deliver. You're always early with stuff you crank. You don't have any time. You just go immediately to the thing. And I've always been amazed at how you were able to fit so much in which is actually our topic today. Yeah. Perfect. But I always know you're gonna get it to me. I don't have to wonder. Um, with me, I haven't always been able to do that, you know? So now I do know we have also different circumstances,
you know, but at the same time, I've always admired that I, I'll say, can I get this from you? And I say, yep. And you just give it to me.
Mike Michalowicz (03:32):
Thank you. You know, we're gonna talk about this now. Um, making time for authorship. What I've discovered in our partnership and journey together is that part of authorship too is just letting things sit for a period of time to let things marinate. And that's, that's has been a struggle for me. It continues to be a struggle for me, but at least I have a cognitive recognition of the need at times to let things be.
Mike Michalowicz (03:57):
And that's improved, that's improved many aspects of my life, but particularly in writing books. Let's, let's talk about the kind of former version of me. When we started working together, initially I said I was an entrepreneur who was also, or trying to, or whatever the words were, writing a book. I'm an entrepreneur, first an author just happened to be a hanging chad on who I was. And then the moment happened with Pumpkin Plan, where I like, holy crap, I'm an author. And that moment became this massive shift in what I saw, who I was in my identity and how I managed all of the work before, and why I was so overwhelmed with authorship was it was filling in the crevices. So I had my life, I had my, my business life is what I'm thinking about. And anytime there was a free moment, it was the insert-the-book stuff.
Mike Michalowicz (04:57):
Very much kind of bits and pieces and, and clunky, ever since The Pumpkin Plan. I'm like, I'm an author who also happens to have some businesses and so forth. Authorship is my priority. I call it the in-season and off-season. And that's been very helpful for me too, giving those terms. Right now, I consider this in the off-season, meaning we don't have a contract to write a book, but we're still writing. I spent quite a few hours, you had some questions for me, which were very helpful writing, but I would say average on
the off-season, maybe a half hour to an hour that I'm writing when I'm doing sprints. I haven't done sprints in a while. I'm coming back to that now in season. It's three to four hours max of writing and research combined. But they're deliberate times. That's been the transformation. And it was interesting, that by prioritizing being an author, the overwhelm went away. I still have overwhelm in my life. Uh, and that's, I bring it upon myself, but not nearly as much as before when I was trying to fill in the cracks.
AJ Harper (06:00):
Yeah. It is an identity shift.
Mike Michalowicz (06:04):
It really is.
AJ Harper (06:04):
And when you, when it, when it's, when you are thinking of it more transactional or as, uh, just part of your work as opposed to being an author and what all that entails, it's different. And then, then you
always have that pull of tension with, I don't have enough time to do all these things. So you kind of have to decide what kind of experience am I gonna have here with this book? It's okay to pull back and say, I can't do that. That's, I'm not assuming that identity where it takes up so much of my time. But then you also have to realize that the consequences, you might not get the outcomes you want. You know, there's a trade off for everything.
Mike Michalowicz (06:49):
I think I really do feel you have to make the choice, though. Am I this or am I that?
AJ Harper (06:53):
Yeah. 100 percent. Because otherwise you're just sort of hobbling along, trying to make, make it all happen. And it doesn't have to mean that it takes over your entire life, but you do need to prioritize time for it.
Mike Michalowicz (07:04):
I was just talking with Don Yeager yesterday, talk, texting with him. He is the author of a lot of sports biographies. I think Walter Peyton is one of his more famous books. Walter Peyton was a, uh, running back professional football player, very famous, uh, the Chicago Bears, I think. And, uh, he was dying of, uh, of cancer. And Don Yeager says to him, so did, he said, Don Yager moved in with Walter Payton to write the book.
AJ Harper (07:35):
Whoa. Okay.
Mike Michalowicz (07:35):
Yeah. Moved in with him and lived with him for the final, I think, three months of his life to learn. I I don't know if he was there full-time, but he was there while he was dying to write this biography. Um, and he, I hope I'm getting this correct, he asked Walter Peyton or someone asked Walter Payton, are you afraid of dying? And Walter Payton says, hell yeah. And he said, why? He goes, he's like, I've never done this one before. What a great line. Right. I've never done this one before. Walter Peyton's biography says by Walter Peyton with Don Yeager. So Walter never said, I'm an author, I presume. Um, but he created a great book, uh, by sharing his story and staying true to who he was as his identity as being an athlete. And invited in the expert who was the author, which was Don Yeager. So I think you still can produce a book, but you won't be the author, the writer. Well,
AJ Harper (08:34):
Now you're talking about it, so it was an autobiography.
Mike Michalowicz (08:37):
It's not, I'm sorry, an autobiography. Not biography. It's an autobiography.
AJ Harper (08:39):
So that's not, yeah. So this is not like a ghostwriting question that we're talking about. We're talking about an identity shift in terms of committing to all the aspects of authorship.
Mike Michalowicz (08:48):
Totally. Yeah. And so let's go through the list,
AJ Harper (08:50):
But, hey, can I say, I wanna do a shot out the Oh, yeah. The inspiration for this episode is from Lisa Bragg, B-R-A-G-G, the author of Bragging Rights. Oh, cute. It's, yeah. Really, really cool. And I hope everybody gets Lisa's book. Yeah. But Lisa had asked on LinkedIn, well actually I had asked, what are some episodes y'all might, you know, some things you might wanna hear from us at? Don't write that book. And, um, among other things mentioned about this, how do you make time for all this stuff? So I just wanna give Lisa a shout out. Get Lisa's book.
Mike Michalowicz (09:22):
Yeah. Bragging Rights. That sounds awesome. Um, here's a list of things that, and this is not an all inclusive list, but here's a list of things.
AJ Harper (09:29):
Yeah. It's not even, it's not even comprehensive
Mike Michalowicz (09:33):
This is like, here's three minutes of ideas, not even get ready. This is what authorship includes.
AJ Harper (09:39):
Yes.
Mike Michalowicz (09:40):
Developing the book. Yes. Book proposals, writing and editing, finding and negotiating publishing deals, building a platform, maintaining engagement with your community. Literary, literary citizenship and author relationships. Creating the plant your flag content, which is articles, columns, videos, planning a launch, launching evergreen activities, which are interviews, speaking social media, any of the ongoing activities, building readership through ongoing marketing. Monetizing. Yeah. And, and, and that's just like I'm--
AJ Harper (10:07):
The quick download. Sure. We, we probably forgot 20 things.
Mike Michalowicz (10:10):
It is, it is a business. And, and the book is a pro. That's how, that's how I see it. The book is a product and you are the business. You have the responsibility to promote it, create it, package it, all, all this stuff. And, and we've talked about this ad nauseum, but it cannot be said enough. The day the book is done is the day the journey starts.
AJ Harper (10:34):
Yes.
Mike Michalowicz (10:39):
Yeah. You, you have a highway analogy. What, what's this?
AJ Harper (10:41):
I do. Okay. So I've, I've worked, I have really tried to find a good analogy to explain to people, because what I hear is questions like this. Well, when should I start looking for a publisher? When my book is done? When should I start building my platform? Does the website come first? Well, should I be speaking first or should I be doing, you know, so I get all this, which is first what, you know, in what order am I doing these things as though there is a ladder? Step one. Now he did step one, go to step two. It ain't a ladder. Is a, authorship is a multi-line Highway. Kind of like, if you've ever been outside of Atlanta, I mean, that freaks me out. There's something, I don't know, it's like 5,000 lanes
Mike Michalowicz (11:29):
AJ Harper (11:31):
But I get dis I get disoriented in Atlanta because I need, I'm good with say four lanes.
Mike Michalowicz (11:38):
Yeah.
AJ Harper (11:38):
But I get disoriented because when there's like eight of them, or 10, like, wait, where am I
AJ Harper (12:34):
You are thinking of this in the wrong way.
Mike Michalowicz (13:40):
Unless it becomes your commitment. We did an event together, and at the very end of the event for authors, I made everyone declare, I am an author. Because that was the, the shift that was necessary for me. That this is who I am. And the rest fills in the crevices. You ever hear that, uh, story, uh, of a, of a professor or something? He goes in front of the college class and he goes, how most people manage their life is, and he takes a thing of sand. He pours the sand in all the small things in life. And then he says, and then they try to add the big rocks. Oh
AJ Harper (14:09):
Oh, yeah. The pebble, rock thing.
Mike Michalowicz (14:10):
Pebble rock thing. Yeah. And then he chose the reverse. And it's like, oh, you, the sand falls in the crevices. If you're making authorship the sand, it'll never get done. You got to put the big rocks in first. It's gotta be your priority.
AJ Harper (14:22):
Well, but hang on. Now I gotta stop you on that. That's your perspective.
Mike Michalowicz (14:26):
That's my perspective, yeah.
AJ Harper (14:27):
Because you have completely shifted to authorship, to the point where we're sitting in an office where you used to have an office.
Mike Michalowicz (14:34):
Oh, that's right. I don't even have an office here
AJ Harper (14:35):
Anymore. In profit first professionals. And you're down the street in my author's office. What you all call the author office
Mike Michalowicz (14:56):
Right. For what reasons? For monetary reasons. Sustain themselves?
AJ Harper (14:59):
Yeah. They've got a business or, or clients or a practice or, yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (15:04):
But if, but I also feel if you're filling in the crevices, uh, you're not gonna put out your best work and you're compromised, you know, once a book is out there, Profit First has been around, uh, 10 or 11 years now. Pumpkin Plan, longer. Pumpkin Plan continues to sell at its highest levels. The back list. If we didn't put our life's, if we didn't put our soul into writing the best book possible, the long-term consequence would've been horrific, I think.
AJ Harper (15:33):
Yeah. Okay. And some people still have to keep all the rest of that going, you know? So
Mike Michalowicz (15:40):
How do we find the time, I guess is the question.
AJ Harper (15:42):
So let's, let's figure it out.
Mike Michalowicz (15:43):
I, I saw, uh, Anthony Robbins do one of his events. Like, I can't really call it like, you know, day of Destiny or something. 30 years ago, I was just thinking about this, this morning, 30 years ago, I saw Anthony Robbins. I was in my twenties. And, uh, I was thinking I was 22 years old. I went in, I didn't know who this guy was, whatever. I just went because my company said they pay for it. And, uh, it was a profound shift for me. It got me into self-help. One of the things he shared is a concept he called Net Strategy, and it stands for no extra Time. And what he said is, there are certain activities we do where you can do a parallel activity without causing, uh, a consequence for either one. So, the most basic example is, that this was before there were audiobooks.
Mike Michalowicz (16:32):
Like, this was when it was just reading books, or, well, there was audiobooks, but they were on cassette. He said, it is better to buy a book on cassette while you're driving to work and listening to the book than there is to get to work, or before you get to work and reading the book, because there's no extra time. That was just one of the examples. And I'm, I'm probably messing it around, but where are we already doing something where we can have a parallel activity when it comes to authorship going on? We just did it. We just created, uh, a social media video, a TikTok video while we're here recording this. So the first question I, I ask myself, and now it's, it's almost subconscious, is what activities I'm already doing where I can layer this on top?
AJ Harper (17:20):
Yeah. Okay.
Mike Michalowicz (17:22):
So the, the no-brainer, where I find time for me is I travel extensively. I'm on planes constantly. So much so that I'll email you saying, or you actually emailed me proactively. When's your next trip? Because that's when I got stuff. And so you knew I had one coming up. I went to Washington's a five-and-a-half-hour flight, wrote like the dickens both ways. Bing, bing,
AJ Harper (17:53):
And... But that took you some time to figure that out. It did.
Mike Michalowicz (17:56):
Yeah, it did. I think there's three writing platforms. I found that work for me. And this is the writing part of authorship. There's so much more, right? This is just that one part is, um, some form of retreat where we, we, you and I go to a cabin, um, where there is no, there's a disruption to my normal routine. And, I can make time during that time to write. Um, so that happened. I, I went away, uh, this, this past week
with my daughter. And there was time in the afternoons, no television, no nothing, uh, no business going on. I wrote, that's number one. The number two thing. And why I like best is on airplanes because there, there scheduled in my life now with such frequency that happens probably almost every week, um, and, um, the environment is such that there's no one to talk to.
Mike Michalowicz (18:54):
I'm not gonna disrupt the person next to me, or vice versa. They don't, no one wants to be talking really. It seems, I don't wanna watch the silly 15th movie on, on that TV they have in front of you. Um, and there's nowhere to go. I can't say, oh, I'm gonna go for a walk, or I'll call someone. You can't, there's no distraction. I don't even turn on the internet. I just write. The third is the sprints. That has been the most economical, um, right. because a, a plane flight can cost hundreds or even thousands.
AJ Harper (19:24):
Mike Michalowicz (19:26):
Yeah I, I've done that. And one, I have one occurrence specifically where I just said, I'm, I'm going on a flight. 'cause I got it. Right. Um, I, I made a destination out of it, but it wasn't
AJ Harper (19:35):
That's hilarious. You, you took
Mike Michalowicz (19:37):
That's that effective. Yeah.
AJ Harper (19:38):
Okay. So that works for you. And then you're talking about writing sprints, which I introduced you to. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (19:43):
So just one more thing about the flights. Now, I found the ideal flight for me is three to five hours shorter flights. I can't, I, I have time getting in the flow. Longer flights at certain points are burning out and, and I, I can't sit any longer. Three to five-hour flights. So East coast to West Coast is actually pretty good. Or vice versa. The last thing is sprints. They're the most economical. You have a minimal fee. And I, and by the way, I encourage people,
AJ Harper (20:10):
Well, you don't even have to have a fee. I just, my, I have writing sprints community that does have a fee. But you can do them with anyone.
Mike Michalowicz (20:16):
Yeah. Yeah. You do them with anyone. I encourage people to join your group specifically for your sprints and pay. Because once you pay, there is an obligation to show up. If it's free, it's like, eh, I don't have to do it today. There's no cost to it. But when there's a fee, even though it's minimal, there's a greater sense of investment and therefore more vested in attending. But what I love about that format is you have multiple sprints a day, but the sprint, I tend, uh, the early morning sprints an hour long. I know they're typically an hour, but they're broken into short increments. And there is something magical when writing in parallel to someone else. There's almost this, I dunno if it's a competitive spirit that kicks in. But there's a necessity to write.
AJ Harper (20:54):
It's not really competitive, it's just we're all here, we're all in the soup together. We're all getting it done. The best example of that, we just had, it was writing Sprint marathon, which is probably one of my
favorite events that we do. And I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but it's a marathon of writing sprints. So we go, we do multiple writing sprints straight from nine in the morning 'til four in the afternoon. Yeah. And people, all people who are published come, people who are just starting come, people who are working on all sorts of writing projects. And, uh, we usually have quite a lot of folks. And we have this amazing day of writing. And then Q and A, um, by the way, if anybody's interested, the next one's gonna be in October and it's totally free. Um, but you can also arrange those type of days where you get a group together. When I was working on my own book, I would hit up the people in my sprint community and say, who wants to sprint extra this weekend? I'm gonna do 10 to one. And then we'd meet on a Saturday. So you can ignore, you can, uh, create these things yourself, um, to create these, these little pockets of time.
Mike Michalowicz (22:07):
Another technique that I use just whenever I want to find time is I schedule it earlier in the morning. Nowadays, I usually get up 5:30 in the morning. Uh, and when I'm in season for writing, I'll write starting at 6:30. The sprint starts at seven, I think till seven,
AJ Harper (22:26):
Six.
Mike Michalowicz (22:27):
Oh. I write, I start writing at five 30. And then I join it for a half hour. And I usually split 'cause I'm go off to the gym. Yeah. Why this I think works is when I schedule something earlier in the morning, I have to consider the night prior, what can I not not do? And it's usually the leisure time that happens for me in the evening, maybe watching television or, or some other activity. Um, and so I just go to sleep earlier. So I don't compromise sleep to write more. I simply say, I'm gonna start earlier in the morning, and
therefore I find the stuff that isn't necessary in the evening to, to ditch.
AJ Harper (23:05):
So I'm interested, you say season. And I, I do actually think of it as seasons, too, but I'll often think, say actively writing. So for example, you and I are working on getting ready to write for a while. We've got a retreat that we do where we, we get all the fundamentals down and the outline and all that. Then we continue to play with it, continue to do interviews, um, just gather, gather, gather. It's like a gathering phase. We have enough now that you just finished those questions that I can go to town. So I'll start, uh, today's the July 17th. And then I'll start after my vacation on August 6th at six o'clock in the morning. Actually, I'll be on way before that because I have already mapped it out. So how I do it is, I call it actively writing.
AJ Harper (23:54):
Meaning I'm now going to town on the actual composition of the book versus preparing to write. And so you can do that preparing to write in bursts. You don't have to have, you know, you can find, you know, time here and there to get that development done. But then once I think you're actively writing or as
you call it in season then, um, you need to have a regular schedule that's happening to get that done. And for me, I use the exact method I talk about in my book where I break down the word count. So I figured out, because I also have my company, right. So I'm teaching all the time that I need to get up and start writing at 4:30. Now I'm already up anyway. It's not a problem. I usually am up around four lately, man. Three. Oh, I don't understand. It's,
Mike Michalowicz (24:47):
Are you getting eight hours of sleep each night?
AJ Harper (24:48):
No, because I, it's hard for me to, that would be 7:00 PM, Mike.
Mike Michalowicz (24:55):
Yeah.
AJ Harper (24:55):
I know. Sometimes I'm not done with work until six 30. How is this gonna happen? Yeah. It's just my body. It's, I think it's like a, I think it's like a perimenopause thing, honestly. But I try to go back anyway. It doesn't matter. You don't need to know my sleep AP
AJ Harper (25:13):
Every weekday. And I don't do weekends unless I am doing like a burst. So I figure out, okay, this is my stretch to get that first draft done. Because I think when you're talking about making time for authorship, it doesn't, you have to think about it like seasons a little bit. So with the writing part, not with the, um, a lot of the other stuff you have to do consistently. But I think it's helpful if you can just map it out. And I think early mornings are essential. I know everybody talks about ideal times to write. So if that's not your ideal time, if you're a night owl, whatever, cool. Do you. But I think if you have a business, which is kind of what we've been talking about today, you gotta get that writing done before all your phone calls start coming in, before all your texts and all your emails. And because you are gonna be, you won't get it done. you're gonna be too distracted to get it done.
Mike Michalowicz (26:07):
There are these crescendo moments. You were saying you have to do everything kind of in parallel, but there are a crescendo moment for a book where it could be the launch. And maybe, maybe not the best analogy, but you use the highway analogy. I think of we've a little orchard at our house, and one thing I
did was plant based upon when things typically ripen. So interestingly, June berry ripens in June, uh, plums in July, uh, apples in late August, early September. So I've planted these things. They all need attention, but certain plants need more attention at certain times. So you're kind of addressing all. And then these critical moments come up. So I, I, a critical moment with my plum trees, we got what's called black knot. It's like this deadly disease or fungus that attacks tree. And now my attention has to be there
to resolve that. And it, it's very similar to writing. When it comes--. My question for you is that prioritization. This isn't a ladder, it's a highway. How do you determine what to prioritize? And, and is there a process where you're just like, yeah, it's going to cut certain things out, or, or can anything be cut out or ditched or paused?
AJ Harper (27:18):
I mean, I, I think a, uh, it's, you might need to consider a sabbatical for writing sometimes if it's just gonna be impossible. But the other stuff, when it comes to marketing, reader engagement, literary citizenship, all of it, you just need to start building it in and time block it. That's the only way you have to decide on a simple metric. I think part of the reason why it gets overwhelming is because you don't have a me-- how much should I be doing? But if you say, for literary citizenship, for example, where you're trying to be supportive of other authors, just put it on your calendar. I'm gonna write a review this week. Put 15 minutes on the calendar, then don't think about it. Just do it every week.
Mike Michalowicz (27:59):
So a technique I use, I call them irrevocable commitments. So if I put something in my calendar that a commitment to myself, I can revoke that and say, well, you know, not this time. So I've mentioned this now on the last few weeks of, of our podcast, but this is coming events coming up at Don Miller's place I call authors for authors. It's August 1st and second. I've invited this year. It's, it's gonna be about 40 authors. Joseph Wynn, I just was talking about last episode. Author of, uh, don't Believe Everything. Do you Think He just signed up. Sally Hogs actually signed up yesterday. She's coming. What's interesting is by committing to this as part of the process, I'm responsible for communicating with every author to make sure they're coming. Make sure the agenda, yes, Aaron helps out, but I'm communicating, which is building relationships. So as I was back and forth with Sally yesterday, just texting her, I can't wait to see you.
Mike Michalowicz (28:53):
And she's like, oh, let's grab dinner together. And just a great conversation that is relationship-building. I think for me, if I simply said, oh, you know, reach out to the Author Calendar event, reach out to authors and just check in. There's no consequence if I don't do it. But once I make an irrevocable commitment, like I'm gonna be in service to people that are attending this event that I'm organizing, I can't not do it. And if I skip it, I better do it that night. If I skip it, you know, in that moment, or I better do it by the next morning, that's been a very powerful tool to make sure I get things done.
AJ Harper (29:24):
So that's a pretty extreme example.,
Mike Michalowicz (29:28):
Bu I-- sometimes I need that.
AJ Harper (29:28):
Yeah. Okay. But it could be simple, is what I'm saying for our listeners. It could be, uh, you're gonna have, uh, maybe a little mastermind that you just organize together. Nothing formal with different authors where you work together to help help each other. Um, it, it could be any number of things like that. Oh, for sure. But I think it's important for you to think about some aspects of marketing, author community, et cetera. Maybe the research you have to do for publishing rather than, you know, getting confused about when to do what. Maybe just setting simple metrics every week. Every week, I'm gonna do this much. I'm gonna shoot two, I'm gonna take 20 minutes and shoot two as many videos as I can for 20 minutes. and just sort of, you have to start building this stuff into the schedule versus, um, thinking in a way that is set on specific metrics versus thinking about it. How do I do all the things at the same time?
Mike Michalowicz (30:34):
I think a mentality of setting a goal, uh, and then if I, if I'm not gonna achieve it not to do it, is, is what often happens. Like, you know, I'm gonna record 10 social media videos this week. That's my goal. So I've set out a block and say, well, I don't have time to achieve that 10. And then a behavior I have is like, well, I'm not gonna do any of it. What I found is the better is I set a minimal, I'm gonna get at least one video done. And once I do that one video, I'm like, well, let's, let's sneak in a second one. And it starts that momentum. I remember you teaching me a technique that was really interesting when it came to writing. You said, I'm gonna write at least maybe I'm paraphrasing for at least five minutes today.
Mike Michalowicz (31:10):
Like, there's no excuse not to write at least for five minutes. Yeah. And so I've done that, and I'm like, oh my God, that five minutes usually turns into 20 minutes. The, the time magically appears, or I get it done. But you put me in a state where there's no excuse not to get started. So I encourage folks to do that. I'll tell you one thing. We were talking about prioritization and ditching things. I'm okay if you ditch the author meetups. I'm okay if you ditch the social media. The one thing you can't ditch is writing the best effing book on the planet. Don't write that book. Like, that's a whole essence of this show. And I think some people say that, like, they're like, oh, you know what? I'll skip doing the research. You know, I have to put as much effort into the editorial component.
Mike Michalowicz (31:53):
They, they allow a weaker book to come out. Back to this guy Joseph Wing because it was such a profound conversation when he wrote, um, don't Believe Everything You Think He Shared. He wrote that book. Um, it was the best of everything he knew for his life. And he said, I don't, I didn't care if I sold it. I didn't expect to sell much of it. He's like, but if it changed one person's life, that's why I'm writing this. And he goes, it is changing minds as I'm writing it. Because he's codifying everything. He's researched. He went through depression. His family struggled. He saw horrible struggles for his family. They were coincidentally entrepreneurs. And the book has, you know, sold 700,000 copies so far.
AJ Harper (32:32):
That's a crazy number.
Mike Michalowicz (32:33):
Crazy number. So far. Uh, on a self pubbed, by the way,
AJ Harper (32:37):
Self pub?
Mike Michalowicz (32:38):
Self pub.
AJ Harper (32:39):
I gotta get this book.
Mike Michalowicz (32:40):
It's good. And, and it broke the rules. It's 30,000 words, you know. Oh, it's, um, but what's interesting is he, he, he said, listen, I committed to writing the best book I can and taking the time necessary to do that. And he didn't do the promotion. He didn't do these different things. Um,
AJ Harper (32:58):
Okay, y'all, this is a lightning in a bottle. Okay. Don't,
Mike Michalowicz (33:00):
It's lightning in a bottle. But now he's backing. He's like, now, once I wrote the best book I could, now the prioritization's been marketing. He leverages the hell out of TikTok. Okay. He says he sells, I think it was 20 or 30% through TikTok shop or Bookshop or whatever it's called.
AJ Harper (33:14):
Seriously? Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (33:17):
Um,
AJ Harper (33:17):
Can we talk, can we talk about that? I'm sorry. Well, so
Mike Michalowicz (33:20):
I just wanna finish this thought. This, this concept of the highway is, is true, but there are sometimes circumstances that present themselves where you guys pick a lane and that's the only lane you can drive, being the lane of writing the best effing book possible.
AJ Harper (33:33):
Yeah, for sure. And I think you also need to vet some of the things that you think you need to be doing. So we can get really caught up in all I should be doing all these things, but it might not actually matter for your readers. And you know, so for right now, publishers are, are pretty psyched about TikTok and with good reason. People are getting a lot of traction on TikTok. People are selling a lot of books on TikTok. But you have to decide if that's gonna be where you wanna be. You don't have to do all the things. And I would say pick, pick the one that you're gonna devote yourself to versus trying to do it everywhere. All the things all the time.
Mike Michalowicz (34:16):
And it kind of may present itself. We are focused, uh, actually more on YouTube now than TikTok. We, we are still working on TikTok, but we tried Instagram, Facebook, always different platforms. And we're seeing naturally that YouTube is working well because it just leans into my personality. Um, and so now we're, we're doubling down on that. We, we talked about this in the prior episode is, is if you're gonna do social media, pick your platform. Um, but that also avails more time for you do do fewer things, more masterfully. And it takes actually less time to do it.
AJ Harper (34:55):
I think also, I would really love everybody here. I mean the, the students that I've worked with who have had the most success in terms of book sales, et cetera, uh, building, monetizing, those students had at least one person helping them. So part of what happens is you, you feel overwhelmed. 'cause you're the one directing every single thing. Related to this. A good assistant who can do some of the basic stuff is worth every stinking penny.
Mike Michalowicz (35:28):
Preach. Preach
AJ Harper (35:29):
Every penny. And if you don't have a big budget, you can get an intern, you can get a college kid, you can get somebody who, uh, is staying home with their kid and can only work, uh, when they're in preschool for four hours. That's, that's good. That's four hours that you don't have. Um, just train them up to be focused on those, all that little stuff that just feels overwhelming. Like the social media posts, um, communicating with authors, research. That's a huge thing. You can get an, um, intern to do or someone, some sort of assistant and, uh, pitching podcasts, whatever. They can, they can get that stuff going on for you.
Mike Michalowicz (36:09):
Yeah.
AJ Harper (36:10):
Get an assistant, please. Dear Lord, get an assistant.
Mike Michalowicz (36:13):
And even the assistant, if I may be, say this, even if they take care of your personal responsibilities, I have an assistant who schedules every one of my doctor appointments. You know, how much time that saves for, for writing. It's unbelievable.
AJ Harper (36:26):
Yeah. It's, that's an interesting way to look at it. So it could also be take some, find a way to get something off your plate. That you, some that you don't have to do. It doesn't require you to do it.
Mike Michalowicz (36:38):
Exactly. It can save tremendous amounts of time. And I think we, we, some of us see a nobility in, in doing all these things for ourself. And there's nothing no will about that, in my opinion. No. Um, on here, there's a note in our, our, there's a note in our notes that says relationships, big challenges. Oh, I don't
AJ Harper (36:57):
Oh, I wanna talk, I wanna talk about this.
Mike Michalowicz (36:58):
Yeah. What is that?
AJ Harper (36:59):
So here's the thing that happens a lot, is I'll have students that come into my class and then their spouse will say to them, why aren't you done yet?
Mike Michalowicz (37:10):
I get it. I get it.
AJ Harper (37:11):
Yeah. I probably, you know what I should do? I should record a series of that should be my tiktoks. They should be directed toward the loved ones of authors to understand what's actually going on. Because--
Mike Michalowicz (37:24):
Do you think Polly would, this is crazy, but you think Polly would ever be interested in coming on our show? We never even have guests. But what do I'd be curious about Polly and Krista's experience of being married to Yukos like us?
AJ Harper (37:37):
I don't know. I can ask.
Mike Michalowicz (37:39):
Yeah. Okay. But, so keep going.
AJ Harper (37:42):
Yukos,
Mike Michalowicz (37:53):
Hey, how many years?
AJ Harper (37:54):
Uh, the, of the wedding? This wedding anniversary tomorrow is 26 years.
Mike Michalowicz (37:59):
And your relationship how many years?
AJ Harper (38:00):
28.
Mike Michalowicz (38:01):
Congratulations.
AJ Harper (38:02):
You were in 51. Wow. I know you, you were your, you
Mike Michalowicz (38:06):
Were two
AJ Harper (38:06):
Utes. We what were you guys 24?
Mike Michalowicz (38:09):
I got married at 24. Yeah.
AJ Harper (38:10):
Yeah. We got married at 25. What the hell were we thinking? I know.
Mike Michalowicz (38:14):
My, my wife and I, it's funny, our, our, uh, one of our children was, was talking about relationships and starting early and we're like, you know, just in, in a very short term relationship as a very strong relationship already. And like, how do you know it's right. And stuff. We're like, don't, don't marry quickly. We got married after six weeks. My wife and I.
AJ Harper (38:32):
What? I didn't know.
Mike Michalowicz (38:33):
I engaged. Engaged. I'm sorry. Engaged.
AJ Harper (38:34):
I did not know that.
Mike Michalowicz (38:35):
Six weeks engaged. Yeah.
AJ Harper (38:37):
You were like, locking this down.
Mike Michalowicz (38:39):
Yeah. I was like, I, she's the one for me. And I, I think she felt the same way. And we're like, six weeks in, we're let, let's do this. And we're like, both of us in retrospect, like, what the f were we thinking? I know we're idiots.
AJ Harper (38:49):
I know. My wife and I was like, what? Why? Why? But we knew, we knew it was right at the time. And actually we were Right. Because look, look where we are.
Mike Michalowicz (38:57):
So,
AJ Harper (38:57):
But I'm just saying,
Mike Michalowicz (38:58):
But they have to navigate us being authors.
AJ Harper (39:00):
Yeah. And I have not been, I That has been a source of tension.
Mike Michalowicz (39:04):
Ditto.
AJ Harper (39:04):
Yeah. I mean, we could probably do a whole episode on how we stay married.
Mike Michalowicz (39:07):
That's why I think they should come in
AJ Harper (39:08):
How we stay married, because I definitely screwed up where I, I prioritized, worked so much, and in my head, I had convinced myself that I was doing it for my family.
Mike Michalowicz (39:21):
Yeah.
AJ Harper (39:25):
The person who actually flipped my hat about it, um, was Garrett Gunderson.
Mike Michalowicz (39:31):
Oh, really?
AJ Harper (39:32):
Yes. Because he was like, that's, he basically called my BS on that.
Mike Michalowicz (39:37):
Oh. Brilliant.
AJ Harper (39:39):
Um, but it, I, it took me on, it's like a wind down. It took me years of just slowly deprioritize, you know, putting more emphasis on the home life than, um, I believed I could, you know? And the, and now I'm very, very good. Even my wife now says, you're very good at it now. But it was a source of tension and
rightly so. Um, part of it is also someone like me who back in the day was writing sometimes 10, 11 books a year.
Mike Michalowicz (40:17):
I can't even fathom that.
AJ Harper (40:20):
Yeah. Um, I'm ca there's a sort of, I call it edit brain and writing brain. So even when I'm at the ball game or at dinner, I'm really not there. And it's like, I can't be, I can't get out. So I was writing so much that I don't know if I was paying, I, I'm sure I wasn't paying attention. So I can see why this can be a challenge, but also I think, um, we don't always communicate with partners about what it's like. Because it's not their world, you know?
Mike Michalowicz (40:59):
Right. And, and it's, it's so alien to anything else. I think. It's not like running a business. It really isn't. Because I've done both.
AJ Harper (41:05):
You almost have to be like, I mean, I have talks with my wife now and say, okay, I'm getting ready to write. Like we're going, Mike and I are, you're saying in season, I say we're about to go into active writing. She knows what that means now. You know? And she can be supportive in that way. Especially because I'm not writing. I'm going to bed at night. I'm going taking weekends off. I'm being a normal human. So I think we have to address this. When you add in all this stuff, you've got a business now. You added all this authorship stuff. Something has to give. And we tend to give in terms of our relationships.
Mike Michalowicz (41:40):
Before it slips my mind. You referenced Garret Gunderson. Garret Gunderson. He is a personal finance expert. And, uh, one of his books is Killing Sacred Cows. Yes. That was my favorite. Uh, he also came out, I don't want, I dunno if it's on Netflix or Amazon Prime. Yes.
AJ Harper (41:55):
Did you see it? Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (41:55):
I didn't watch it
AJ Harper (41:56):
Yet. It's called you. You're gonna love it. You are gonna love it. And I want you to watch it. It's called The American Ream.
Mike Michalowicz (42:03):
Okay.
AJ Harper (42:04):
And it's about money. It's a comedy show about money. I
Mike Michalowicz (42:07):
And you helped script
AJ Harper (42:09):
It? No, no. That I didn't, I, that he has a, uh, theatrical keynote. That's a different thing. Okay. Yeah. Which I'm, I'm hoping I'm gonna go. He actually texted me last week and said, if, can I fly out to Atlanta to see my theatrical keynote in November? I said, yes, because we wrote that before The Pandemic. I've never seen it.
Mike Michalowicz (42:31):
Oh, Amazing. Amazing.
AJ Harper (42:32):
In person. But he also, incidentally, he wrote, um, Disrupting Sacred Cows After Killing Sacred Cows. And, um, you might want, if you like that one, you might like to check that one.
Mike Michalowicz (42:41):
I love killing Sacred Cows. Um, yeah, he texted me too. Well, and, and then actually this is a great, uh, demonstration of how you market yourself, um, you know, in, in devoting time. So he wrote these books. He's actively telling his constituency, check out what I have now. Um,
AJ Harper (42:59):
Is that how you found out about American Ream?
Mike Michalowicz (43:01):
Yeah. He texted me.
AJ Harper (43:02):
He's so excited about it.
Mike Michalowicz (43:04):
And rightfully so.
AJ Harper (43:05):
It's on Prime, but you guys, it's also on Tubi, which is free.
Mike Michalowicz (43:08):
Oh, I didn't know that. Just I was about to drop 2.99.
AJ Harper (43:11):
You should drop 2.99. He doesn't care though. He just does it.
Mike Michalowicz (43:13):
If he benefits, I'll do it.
AJ Harper (43:15):
I'm sure he does. But my, but he's the person that taught me, because he also went full on with work to the exclusion of, I mean, he, he was really prior prioritizing it to an extreme. And he's the one who really helped me see. Oh my God. I've, who been pretending like this was for my family.
Mike Michalowicz (43:34):
So, yeah. So back to relationships then. Um, how you navigated with Polly. It was interesting. What I found with Krista, the experience of, uh, everything up to Profit First, Pumpkin Plan, Toilet Paper Entrepreneur, it was so immersive. It was affecting our relationship. Yeah. The technique of starting earlier in the morning has served our relationship. Krista, she likes the ritual. Uh, she'll wake up around 7, 7 30. I'm, I'm already done with the gym at that point. She likes me bringing a cup, fresh cup of coffee for her. She doesn't like to leave the bed. And she'll scroll through social media and, uh, the bedroom looks out into the woods. She loves it. And so, um, I've already finished writing for the day. I've already got my exercise in. Yeah. And she's being honored the evenings, then I devote to our time together. The thing is, um, I started in just, in life, stopped working Fridays. I mean, I shouldn't say that. No scheduled work.
AJ Harper (44:29):
No scheduled things.
Mike Michalowicz (44:30):
No scheduled things on Friday.
AJ Harper (44:30):
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Mike Michalowicz (44:33):
I then do any kind of hanging or leftover elements. I clean up Friday mornings and I'll write a little bit. And by one or two o'clock in the afternoon, I got nothing else going on. And it's time with my wife. And it's been transformative. Um, the quantity and the quality of work, the quantity has sustained. And the quality's improved.
AJ Harper (44:54):
I mean, I changed. I'm gonna make, so at 6:30 I do the same thing. I've gotta get that knocked out in the morning and then she's asleep. Yeah. So at 6:30 though, uh, we like to watch the Today Show together and drink coffee and talk about our days. And it starts at 6:30. So I've got sprints from six to seven. So new starting this year is, I'm gonna say I'm on for the first half hour.
Mike Michalowicz (45:17):
Oh. But like
AJ Harper (45:17):
What I do. So, but I'm gonna have been on for a while. But here's the thing. Old me would've said, I gotta do my sprints. So I'm, I'm in sprints season, honey. And she'd be like, okay. And she'd just really supportive. But we have coffee at 6:30. Yeah, I love that. So I'm gonna be, I'm like, I'm gonna get you guys started.
Mike Michalowicz (45:35):
If you wanna start at 5:30, I'll be there.
AJ Harper (45:37):
I will already be there. You, I know what I'm
Mike Michalowicz (45:38):
Saying. Why don't you start at 5:30 if
AJ Harper (45:39):
You want. No, that's fine. I'll go in. I'm just saying, we have to also respect, we have to figure out how to make this work with our lives, because otherwise it can get, it can get really difficult.
Mike Michalowicz (45:51):
Sam Walton infamously said on his deathbed, supposedly I blew it. We actually included that in, in the Toilet Paper Entrepreneur. And, and what the context was, he was surrounded by his family, and all he did was work. So, um, we talked about seasons, we talked about what your students do, um, and what we do to carve out time. We talked about sabbaticals retreats. Uh, we talked about sprints. You
mentioned here in the notes concentrated time. Is that different than sprints? What does that mean?
AJ Harper (46:23):
Yeah. So in addition to the sprints, um, that I, I block off for myself, I'll also here or there, make sure that I have every six weeks or something.
Mike Michalowicz (46:37):
Uh oh, I gotcha.
AJ Harper (46:37):
I'm gonna do a block. A big block.
Mike Michalowicz (46:40):
Gotcha.
AJ Harper (46:40):
A deep, deep thinking time. I think as authors, we can't just shove stuff into 20 minutes. I think 20 minutes is great to continue to make progress, but I think you've got to allow yourself at least once a quarter a day, a full day that's devoted to authorship. And even if it's just thinking. Uh, we can't, we can't just try to do this author thing in fits and starts because we need time to think about stuff.
Mike Michalowicz (47:07):
So here's the big, the big question. Does it pay it off to devote your time to authorship?
AJ Harper (47:13):
Well, I mean, I'm biased. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (47:16):
Yeah. And I, I would say eff yeah.
AJ Harper (47:17):
Yeah. I think it's, I think it 100% does. I think you gotta make that mindset shift. Oh, I wanna back up one, one more. I have to tell you, I met this, um, I was on her podcast, Rachel Herron. Fantastic podcast called Ink in Your Veins? Or is it Ink In Her Veins? Ink. Ink in your veins. Okay. Her, maybe it's her veins. Apologies. It'll be in the show notes. Apologies. Rachel, if you're listening. She asked me to be on her podcast. I had the most fun I've maybe ever had on a podcast. Um, and I, we got afterward. We talked for an hour
Mike Michalowicz (47:56):
After the podcast? That's probably the juiciest stuff.
AJ Harper (47:58):
So, 'cause we're kindred spirits, but a lot of stuff. She lives in New Zealand, but she's American. And anyway, um, she got me, I talking and I, and she wanted to know about fiction. And I have been putting off writing a novel. I tried last year to get it going. It didn't work with what, everything that happened in my life. So it's on topic with what we're talking about today. I haven't made space for that yet. That's a novel I've been wanting to write for over 20 years now. I haven't written fiction in so long. And I love it.
And in my mind, I'm like, oh, okay. I'm now I'm going into active writing with Mike, so that's, I can't do that. And she said, no, just do 15 minutes. And I said, well, I don't think I've had enough time to really think about the themes and the central questions. I don't think I have enough sorted. She said, doesn't matter, just do 15 minutes of anywhere in the book, any scene that comes to mind. You don't know if you're gonna use it. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna try Rachel Heron's methodology. So I'm also gonna do that simultaneously with writing.
Mike Michalowicz (49:14):
Interesting.
AJ Harper (49:14):
Our new book. Your new book. Yeah. So you, uh, to see what happens. I wanna see. Because I thought, you know what I'm, because she does that and then she kind of discovers the book. She's always working on either editing a book or writing a book, or thinking about a book. And this is one of her methodologies when she's not sure exactly what it is yet. So I'm gonna give it a try and I'll let you know how it goes. So I'm just gonna allow myself, and she does it first. So then in theory, if I'm starting at four 30, I would do 15 minutes on the novel, then just set it aside, not worrying about-- I have no goal. And then go into this new book we're writing.
Mike Michalowicz (49:54):
So my answer to does it pay off to devote time to authorship is eff yes. But it's not because of the material benefits. It's because it satisfies a calling for me. And there is no greater satisfaction. It, this isn't even accolades or acknowledgements from external, it's just internally. It's like, yeah, this is what it's meant to do. In my life's experience, there is no greater satisfaction than than serving a calling. So if you feel called to write a book, my God, like, there, there, devoting yourself to that is extraordinary. Regardless of the external measurements, you know? Um, ironically, my life is also the best it's ever been, um, outside of authorship because of authorship.
AJ Harper (50:55):
Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (50:56):
It's really kind of fascinating.
AJ Harper (50:57):
I love my life and I wouldn't, I don't think, I think I love my life more since I decided to become an author myself as opposed to just facilitating that for others.
Mike Michalowicz (51:10):
Yeah. And it's funny, I I sometimes talk with people and said, you know, if you had all the money in the world, right? What would you do? Some will say, I, I'll sit on the beach. And I'm like, Hmm. That's probably not gonna be satisfactory. Others in consideration of that, when they really think deeply about it, look back to a calling of some sort. I remember a friend of mine who's a, a wealth manager and very successful at it. I said, if you had all the money in the world and, and, and no demands on you, what would you do? And he's like, I'd be a baseball coach. He's like, not even for the major leagues, he just minor leagues or kids. He's like, I love it so much. It means so much to me. And that's, that expression is what I'm experiencing through authorship. Um, it just means so much to me. I, I'll never, never quit it and I'll always devote to it until maybe the day comes, it says okay enough. But I don't feel it yet. Maybe. Uh, next week actually, we have a two part episode coming up. Right?
AJ Harper (52:11):
We're gonna do a two-parter after this.
Mike Michalowicz (52:14):
Uh, we're gonna write about the Don't Write That introduction.
AJ Harper (52:23):
Mike Michalowicz (52:31):
Well you're gonna hear all that stuff. Hey, uh, I wanna ask you something big as a, a listener. Would you subscribe to our channel? We, we never or rarely ask that, but it is important to us. If you click on that subscribe button, it clicks off your podcast algorithm, apple or whatever you're listening on, and it starts promoting to other folks. We really do wanna get the word out on this show, and if we are serving you, um, the greatest way you can serve us is just to take that second and hit subscribe. Thanks for considering that. As always, thank you for joining us for our show. You know, we get the materials that's at d wtb podcast.com. You can also email AJ and I through the site, um, and, and ask us any questions you have, we wanna answer 'em on our show. Any, uh, any thoughts you have, any, uh, experiences we wanna hear at all? And we are hearing from a lot of readers, our listeners now, and that's a big deal to us. Thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you got some value out of it, and I hope you decide to devote yourself to authorship. As always, don't write that book. Write the greatest book you can.