In this episode, Mike and AJ are back in the debate ring with their opinions on live book launch events. They both explain their values (no ego-centered events!) and even discuss the ROI of big launches. Who will win this round? For those keeping score, it’s AJ: 2, Mike: 0. Will Mike get on the board? Tune in to find out!
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In Search of You, by Kasey Compton
I See You, by Amy Kemp
Everything is Figureoutable , by Marie Forleo
How to Work with (Almost) Anyone , by Michael Bungay Stanier
Never Lose an Employee Again , by Joey Coleman
AJ Harper, website
AJ’s Socials:
Mike Michalowicz, website
Mike’s Socials:
“Should You Do a Live Launch Event?”
Mike Michalowicz (00:01):
Welcome back to the Don't Write That Book podcast where you can learn how to write your bestseller and own your authorship. Follow along with us as we give you an insider's view of the book industry. Now, here are your Hosts. Myself, Mike Michalowicz and AJ Harper. Today we're gonna talk about live launches. I guess it's not gonna be a debate. Oh, we did, we shifted. I can't see you. I'm sorry. I'm gonna shift over to-- Wait.
AJ Harper (00:26):
Two 50 year olds
Mike Michalowicz (00:28):
Hopping in chairs.
AJ Harper (00:29):
I'm try,
Mike Michalowicz (00:30):
That's what, that's what's so cool about live, and maybe that will play into a live launch, is you have moments like this that doesn't happen over Zoom. Like where you're, you can see each other, you can interact. There's a different quality of interaction in person.
AJ Harper (00:45):
Yeah. Oh, interesting. Because I was thinking live could just also be virtual.
Mike Michalowicz (00:50):
Virtual, like Zoom or, yeah. Well,
AJ Harper (00:53):
But you're right. Okay.
Mike Michalowicz (00:54):
We're gonna dig into that. First.
AJ Harper (00:56):
Let's live, live, live book launches.
Mike Michalowicz (00:58):
Live book launches. Exactly. So, welcome to our show you're listening to Don't Write That Book. And, uh, I'm joined in studio, physically in studio here in Boontown, New Jersey with AJ Harper. And, uh, what I want to acknowledge about you is just your ability to manifest dreams just before this. We're like
AJ Harper (01:29):
28 years.
Mike Michalowicz (01:30):
But in the last five years I've really seen it taking hold and making these commitments and then seeing the structure built from a piece of land to like some dudes sleeping in a garage because they built your garage first, or they're storing equipment and stuff in there. You're sending these pictures of people assembling and hammers flying around to you and Polly being on that deck just a few weeks ago. Yeah. Looking at the water. Yeah. And the weather looks, I mean, it looks so beautiful right now.
AJ Harper (01:59):
It's so beautiful. Right now they're having an insane Aurora boes, but they always do. So it's all over the country. We're getting extra Northern lights.
Mike Michalowicz (02:08):
It even came down to here. New to New Jersey. Yeah.
AJ Harper (02:11):
But up there they have it every year.
Mike Michalowicz (02:13):
Wow. Yeah. That's unbelievable. And you are, what's the lake You're on
AJ Harper (02:18):
Superior.
Mike Michalowicz (02:19):
Lake Superior.
AJ Harper (02:20):
As as, as we like to say, the gloat.
Mike Michalowicz (02:23):
Why is it called the gloat?
AJ Harper (02:24):
The greatest lake of all time?
Mike Michalowicz (02:28):
Oh my God. Oh my God. Did I give you a softball? Oh gosh.
AJ Harper (02:32):
You did. And it was a Mike-type joke too. Yeah. I just gave a, I did a Mike joke.
Mike Michalowicz (02:37):
The gloat. I like that. Um, so AJ, thank you for being on the show with me. And, uh, that was your introduction, that you manifest dreams. And it is a joy to witness and partake. I just left a message for Erin for me to fly up there after May 15th
AJ Harper (02:53):
Next year. Get some writing done.
Mike Michalowicz (02:55):
One of your early guests. One of your first guests. Do I have bring my own linens and stuff? Like what's this?
AJ Harper (03:01):
No. Okay. It's not a camp.
Mike Michalowicz (03:05):
It, it looks like a camp like property in, its, its beauty and it pristine.
AJ Harper (03:09):
Well, it ha But it also has sort of like a, uh, retro vibe.
Mike Michalowicz (03:14):
And you have multiple buildings. Structures is probably the better choice of words. You have the main structure of the home.
AJ Harper (03:19):
It's not that fancy.
Mike Michalowicz (03:20):
You have a writing cabin. You have a garage.
AJ Harper (03:22):
Okay. It's not a cabin, it's just a little studio.
Mike Michalowicz (03:25):
Okay.
AJ Harper (03:26):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's, I don't want it to sound, you know, Midwesterners, we're, we're modest.
Mike Michalowicz (03:33):
I think it's tomato, tomato. I mean, cabin... A cabin could be very modest.
AJ Harper (03:38):
Listen, it's a dream for any writer to have a separate dang building. Yes. No matter how small it is.
Mike Michalowicz (03:44):
With a view of the water and pine trees.
AJ Harper (03:47):
Yes. And pine trees. Yeah. And quiet. And let me just say dedicated wifi.
Mike Michalowicz (03:54):
Wow.
AJ Harper (03:55):
Wow. Yeah. I just spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with the company that's gonna lay the cable.
Mike Michalowicz (04:03):
Okay. So you have an actual cable coming right. To your home?
AJ Harper (04:06):
Okay. But a separate one for the office.
Mike Michalowicz (04:08):
Okay. That, that's what you meant by dedicated. So you have two internet lines coming in effectively.
AJ Harper (04:12):
I have to because I can't compete with whatever guests are hap doing in the house.
Mike Michalowicz (04:18):
Don't touch my bandwidth.
AJ Harper (04:19):
Don't touch my bandwidth. Man.
Mike Michalowicz (04:23):
AJ Harper (04:25):
Mike Michalowicz (04:32):
Thank you.
AJ Harper (04:33):
We said this on-- What we said recently was, I think it was in one of our, um, we had the two Zoom recordings Yeah. When you were stuck in Kansas City. Yeah. And we realized how this podcast is, how us acknowledge how we are similar.
AJ Harper (04:52):
So what's helping us acknowledge that is this thing you do at the start of every podcast. what I, what I admire about you is what I like about you is. And when you say it, I realize I like that about you too.
Mike Michalowicz (05:58):
Yeah.
AJ Harper (06:00):
Yeah. But you are thinking about what it, what, what that has to be for you before you can do it. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (06:05):
It's funny. So yeah. We're actually saving for it. And I'm monitoring the rising ocean and the longevity of where we're looking may only be 25 years before it starts consistently flooding. And so I'm like, this may not be a good idea. So now maybe I'm gonna shift it to, uh, in the mountains.
AJ Harper (06:27):
Well, I mean, it is been a factor for me, by the way, and, and my wife realizing how one a, a good place for us to be is gonna be in the Great Lakes region.
Mike Michalowicz (06:36):
Yeah. I'm curious with oceans rising, does that affect lakes?
AJ Harper (06:42):
Well, lakes can rise as well, but that, that, yes, it does affect lakes not in the same way.
Mike Michalowicz (06:49):
Okay. So assume not, but I also thought, could there be more evaporative effect occurring from the ocean causing more rain causing lakes, rivers, and lakes as swell? I'm just wondering. Yeah.
AJ Harper (06:59):
I do not have the qualifications to answer that question.
Mike Michalowicz (07:04):
And maybe we don't wanna know, like certain things maybe
AJ Harper (07:06):
We don't wanna know. Yeah. Maybe we don't wanna know.
Mike Michalowicz (07:09):
Did you hear that AI's being used now to learn how to communicate with animals? No. Do we talk about, oh,
AJ Harper (07:34):
I wanna know what whales, the whales will tell us what's happening with the ocean.
Mike Michalowicz (07:37):
That's how the article end. That's what the article ends. It's like, do we really wanna know what the whales have to tell us?
AJ Harper (07:40):
Yes, we do. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna know what the whales have to say. Yeah. Stop
Mike Michalowicz (07:45):
Yeah. Stop. Ah, man. Yes.
AJ Harper (07:47):
Stop it.
Mike Michalowicz (07:47):
But they may have the solution too.
AJ Harper (07:48):
They might, I think they're quite brilliant actually. I think they're quite smart.
Mike Michalowicz (07:53):
I think one of the weaknesses of humanity is to think that we're the superior intelligence even on this planet. Now, listen, I know someone's hearing this right now and go, this guy is an idiot. You're saying there's a smarter animal, they're more intuitive species, I think, than the human species.
AJ Harper (08:07):
How, how would we know though?
Mike Michalowicz (08:08):
And we wouldn't.
AJ Harper (08:09):
So that's our arrogance.
Mike Michalowicz (08:10):
Yeah. And I think there's intuition and, and knowledge from other species that, that we, we don't touch
yet. So maybe there, maybe the opportunity presents itself.
AJ Harper (08:18):
And maybe the whales can write a book
Mike Michalowicz (08:22):
Yeah. Maybe. Well,
AJ Harper (08:23):
If you could translate what they say you think that wouldn't be next?
Mike Michalowicz (08:27):
Wow. That I, I'd buy that book already just on the concept.
AJ Harper (08:30):
Listen.
Mike Michalowicz (08:31):
All right, well, well let's get off our acid trip here and get back to the concept of a live launch. Um, I attended one recently. You, you and I attended one, uh, Kasey's recently. Yeah. Now that was an in-person live launch.
AJ Harper (08:45):
In Kentucky.
Mike Michalowicz (08:47):
It was really well executed.
AJ Harper (08:49):
Very well executed.
Mike Michalowicz (08:50):
Uh, the venue selection, um, was a quasi-theater, but with mobile seating. So they put tables in instead of traditional theater style seating. Um, she was able to, um, move quite a few books and I wanna share some of the techniques that she used. Um, and it, it, it introduced the book and the stories behind it in a way that I think wouldn't been received through traditional email blasts and stuff like that. Um, but I'm not necessarily... Here. So here's the thing. Last week I, I was talking about my opinion. I don't believe that live launches in general are an effective way to launch books.
AJ Harper (09:29):
Okay. So we might have a debate. Yeah. I, yeah, I also thought that, but I have different ideas now.
Mike Michalowicz (09:39):
Okay. I want to hear.
AJ Harper (09:40):
But I think the reason you think that is because you are basing it on a very specific measure,
Mike Michalowicz (09:46):
Which dollar for dollar. Yeah.
AJ Harper (09:47):
So I think fair. I think you win that. And I agree actually. I don't think we disagree. I don't think that a live launch is about book sales directly. I think it's about something else.
Mike Michalowicz (10:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Good. So, so, well, let's explore that. Let's first define what a live launch is. Yeah.
AJ Harper (10:09):
Because at the top you were saying in person, and I can see that. But I guess in my mind, I also thought maybe it's also virtual, but let's just, let's not do that. You're right. It's, I'm, we need to just talk about in- person live events.
Mike Michalowicz (10:26):
Okay. Yeah. And we can even, we can even talk about Zoom, but I do wanna distinguish it from the launch week and launch period. There is a traditionally, and I am a proponent for this, a heightened, concentrated sequence of activities that happens around the publication date. Right proceeding it on it, and after it for a week or two. I call that the launch week or the launch period. And it can be, uh, a volume of email communications. It could be, uh, advertisements, it could be podcast appearances. There's a lot of elements. So this is just one of the elements. which could be an in-person celebration, an organized celebration. It, it can be done on Zoom. And I dare say one of the authors that went through Top Three Workshop with you, I attended one on Zoom, but this is years ago. Um, and I thought it was just really effective.
AJ Harper (11:21):
Well, I did one on, I did, it wasn't, it was done actually using StreamYard. Mine was, maybe?
Mike Michalowicz (11:27):
I'm thinking of yours. Did you have like different guests come on? Okay. It was yours.
AJ Harper (11:31):
Mike Michalowicz (11:32):
God, an author that you worked with.
AJ Harper (11:36):
Mike Michalowicz (11:38):
It was yours. That's great.
AJ Harper (11:44):
Oh yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (11:45):
AJ Harper (11:48):
Oh, it's fine. It was on Streamyard and it was a, I think it was three hours. I could be wrong. Um, and it was a series of guests and I did it in a very specific way. If the listeners are interested, we can do a separate episode and break down different launches maybe. That'd be cool. That could be cool. That'd be cool. Because I definitely had very specific reasons for everything I did. Uh, but yeah, that was broadcast live on, um, Facebook, LinkedIn, and I wanna say YouTube, and then of course became a video. But, uh, I think there's value in doing those. I don't think we can debate that. I think it can be, there's value in doing something live during your launch week, even if it's short, just at... Something. I think is effective.
Mike Michalowicz (12:46):
Yes. I, I agree. Uh, but--
AJ Harper (12:48):
I think we've been, what we're really talking about is should you have a launch in-person launch event.
Mike Michalowicz (12:53):
Okay. Yeah. I agree. The, do we go through a pros and cons here? Um, is that the best approach?
AJ Harper (13:02):
Um, I, I mean, I think let's talk about, yeah, let's talk about why you shouldn't do it. So an in-person live event would, most people would call it a launch party. But it could be other than a party, it could be an educational event or, or something else. But most people would think of, should I do a launch party?
Mike Michalowicz (13:20):
Okay. I think you have to go in with the determination of why you're doing this. Is it, some people do it as a celebration of completing a herculean task. It's a monumental moment in their life. And I think that's appropriate if you simply wanna celebrate, like a birthday party. The birthday party isn't there to promote or tell something, but you have birth to book. And this is just a celebration and, you know, come and, and bring gifts if you wish or whatever. But we're just gonna have party together. And I think that that's a cool thing to do. Others do it to build momentum for the book. Yeah.
AJ Harper (13:57):
Build buzz.
Mike Michalowicz (13:58):
And I think there's a lot of misconceptions or misunderstandings. I think one of the challenges Kasey had at her event was the people attending were her friends. It was in a remote area of, generally a remote area of Kentucky. It was about, uh, an hour and a half out of Louisville. Louisville. And so it was more of a remote area. So it was, it was difficult to access. I think both you and I went through pretty extraordinary efforts to get there. We--
AJ Harper (14:22):
Well, we had some travel challenges.
Mike Michalowicz (14:24):
I had a eight-hour or nine-hour drive home from this thing home to get to the airport.
AJ Harper (14:30):
You were stranded.
Mike Michalowicz (14:31):
Yeah. A truck broke down on the hi—or something broke down the highway and it brought traffic to a stop. I was trying to get the airport. I had to leave at three in the morning. At four o'clock. I'm, uh, or three 30 in the morning. I'm stuck on the highway. I sucked it up till noon. So it is more than ridiculously long. Nine hours. Horrible. I missed not just the flight, I missed the rebooking and I missed the rebooking, and I missed the fourth rebooking I had to get the next day. It was a nightmare. But nonetheless, um, I think an attracted friends. And I think there is a empathy or supportive sale, but not a sale that's consistent with a actual consumer of that book that would then therefore want to read this book, therefore would want to promote the book if they enjoy it.
Mike Michalowicz (15:17):
I think that's a big risk is that we go in with the intention of selling books and we have a misconception of the right audience. I think another kind of risk we run is how to actually do the promotion at the event. Do we ask people to buy the book right now? Is that appropriate? Do we do other ways to move volumes of books? Kasey did something interesting. She had an auction going on. I thought that was really cool. It was like a silent auction where they had different gifts. I think you donated something.
AJ Harper (15:52):
No, I didn't donate, but I bought.
Mike Michalowicz (15:54):
So I have a funny story too. So we, we donated, uh, backstage access to John Cougar Mellencamp.
AJ Harper (16:01):
Yeah, I remember? I think I bid on it.
Mike Michalowicz (16:03):
Yeah. And so
AJ Harper (16:04):
The, I didn't
Mike Michalowicz (16:04):
Win it. The person purchased it. So this is a kind of a, a quasi-confidential story purchase.
AJ Harper (16:12):
Why are you saying it on the podcast?
Mike Michalowicz (16:13):
Yeah. Maybe I won't share it then.
AJ Harper (16:15):
Skip it.
Mike Michalowicz (16:15):
Yeah. So it became problematic for me.
AJ Harper (16:18):
There was an--
Mike Michalowicz (16:19):
And costly for me, and I went, I made extraordinary efforts to be of services person, and they were dissatisfied. I was like, are you kidding me? The whole goal was to support Kasey.
AJ Harper (16:29):
Okay. Okay. But now you're you're way, you're off track.
Mike Michalowicz (16:31):
Yeah, I'm off track. I'm off track. So, um, I, but I thought that was a genius idea and she moved a lot of books that way. Um, other,
AJ Harper (16:40):
But okay, let's let, let's just, I think that's the main thing. I think this is the main takeaway from the call, which is if you're gonna do a live launch event, if it's a, you just need to understand that your expectations for the purpose of it might be misaligned. Is-- no, you know, unless it's bulk sales, most people, or if people have to get buy a booked for entry to the event, you're not moving books. And you might not want to, you might not even wanna make that a thing. You might wanna just give them away at the event and just let it be celebratory, but make sure that you're being realistic about your goals for the event. I personally think the best reason is to generate buzz and, uh, celebrate your massive accomplishment.
Mike Michalowicz (17:28):
If it's generating buzz. I think you do have to have some scripts or intentions. Like if you give the books away, I think that's actually a great idea. But I would have an ask for each person to say, Hey, would you please go on your social media platform with a picture holding your brand new book? Give them scripts
of what to do.
AJ Harper (17:44):
Oh, yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (17:44):
Because now you have an event where you have 50 or a hundred or more people in attendance all doing something simultaneously that can get a little bit of buzz and momentum going. And you can do with influencers, you know, particularly with influencers. So bring in, um, people that are influential in your community that you're serving and them holding your books and getting the word out. That could start getting plug into.
AJ Harper (18:10):
Yeah. You can, can have somebody go around to the party and get their blurbs and their excitement. I also think if you're, if you're smart about it, you can also get visual and video content that you can use for years. So, um, um, get a photographer to go around and shoot it, get a videographer, then use that content for your social media and for your website and for all the things for years to come. And that can be worth it to get that much, that much visual content that's different.
Mike Michalowicz (18:44):
Marie Forleo launched her book. Uh, Everything is Figureoutable.
AJ Harper (18:51):
That was a big party.
Mike Michalowicz (18:53):
It was a, it was a spectacle. Yeah. It was a spectacle. So it was, uh, in a theater, there was easily three, 400 people in attendance, maybe 500. She's a dance professional. So he comes out, there's music pumping, and she comes out and does like a break dance with a dance squad. Um, and that's how this kicks off. And then she shared a little presentation on the book. And then there's a celebration. You could not not talk about it. It was such a unique way to introduce a book. But I remember one other author saying, oh my God, now you have to be a dancer and singer to promote a book
AJ Harper (19:30):
But it, but you could, but that fits her. That fits her and her brand.
Mike Michalowicz (19:34):
It is perfect for her. Yeah.
AJ Harper (19:35):
You know, um, you could, you could figure out a way your party could incorporate education. It could have panel discussions. Maybe your party is gonna be none of that. And it's gonna be more silly and fun. Maybe your party's gonna be a scavenger hunt. Maybe your party's gonna be raucous. Maybe it's gonna be a tea party. I don't know. But I think it can be your vibe. Um, you can also do get other people to have parties in your name. You know? I mean, you could have people doing little parties all over that. Everybody's sort of, you know how at, um, new Year's Eve, there's, "we're live from this place. Yeah. And over here, we're in this place."
Mike Michalowicz (20:15):
Oh, that's a cool idea.
AJ Harper (20:17):
You know, you could just get some of your biggest fans or influencers to partner with you and do mini parties and like, on different feeds and be checking in and do fun things like that. And that will create a lot of buzz.
Mike Michalowicz (20:30):
That's great. Now you got me thinking.
AJ Harper (20:33):
Oh made for, I almost said that...
Mike Michalowicz (20:36):
For the new book. Don't say it. I almost said her. I know, but you didn't. You didn't.
AJ Harper (20:40):
Are you sure?
Mike Michalowicz (20:40):
Listen, I almost tore about a guy, some guy apart with Kasey's event. And now you're almost revealing the book. Like, this is is a disaster episode,
AJ Harper (21:06):
I mean, yes.
Mike Michalowicz (21:06):
Like fake reporters, like in the seventies garb with like that long microphone with the
AJ Harper (21:13):
Uh, yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (21:14):
That would be fun.
AJ Harper (21:15):
Or get people to line up at a bookstore for no apparent. Like, just like, so that the bookstore owners like,
what's happening?
Mike Michalowicz (21:21):
Yeah. And then they don't what's going on. It'll carry the book.
AJ Harper (21:25):
Get your street team to go stand at a--
Mike Michalowicz (21:27):
We're all gonna one bookstore at four in the morning or--
AJ Harper (21:29):
No, with the chairs, with the like lined up with the--
Mike Michalowicz (21:33):
Yeah. Sleep, sleeping bags. Chairs. Everyone sits out there and the book owner comes like, do you have Mike's new books? Like
AJ Harper (21:41):
We're here for the big release.
Mike Michalowicz (21:43):
It's the big release. Yeah. Oh, wrong bookstore. Wrong bookstore. That's funny. Um,
AJ Harper (21:47):
Oh, we, we digress. Fun times. All right. But you, if you wanna, if you wanna celebrate, I think you should, you should do it. You can also raise funds. You could make it a fundraiser. That could be
Mike Michalowicz (21:58):
Yeah. For a charitable. Yeah.
AJ Harper (22:00):
And then you get the charity involved, and then that adds gra um, gravitas to the event. But also does good. And also they're promoting it for you. There's lots of things you can do to partner with other people. Um, and then again, those in it can be an incentive for a bulk buy. So you have access to this really cool party where maybe there's entertainment or access to other people. Fun times. Gifts. And so you buy x number of books and you have a ticket to the party.
Mike Michalowicz (22:28):
You could have co uh, Co-launch live events. So Michael Bungay Stanier author of Coaching Habit among other books, he launched a new book called How to Work With Almost Anyone. Yeah. And Joey Coleman launched his book, um, uh, never Lose a Employee Again. And they launched around the same time and they did a co, uh, live event together in Toronto. Fun. Yeah. That's cool. That was really smart. And so what what's great is Michael's on stage promoting Joey's book and Joey's on stage promoting Michael's book. It was just really well done. And they moved hundreds of books that way.
AJ Harper (23:06):
Yeah. So I think those are all, you know, good reasons to do it, but I think you have to think about the time investment and the monetary investment, because the bigger the party, the less likely it is that you're gonna have ROI in terms of actual, you know, oh, I made it back from book sales. But you're gonna make it back from whatever else you're trying to get in terms of buzz and excitement.
Mike Michalowicz (23:29):
I think you gotta be really, you gotta really run the numbers and determine what's the return I could potentially get here and cons and consider alternatives. We, and this shows my bias. We haven't done a live event in person. We did do for Fix This Next a live event where we had different guests coming on.
AJ Harper (23:51):
So I wanna challenge you. I I think you should, I think you should have a live event for the next book.
Mike Michalowicz (23:57):
Yeah. I'm, I'm not against it.
AJ Harper (23:59):
But I want you to say to yourself, what would it, instead of, I don't think I should do it. I want you to say, what would it have to be for me to want to do it?
Mike Michalowicz (24:09):
Yeah. I like that.
AJ Harper (24:10):
I want you to see what you come up with, because I know you will come up with something super awesome.
Mike Michalowicz (24:15):
Well, my mind's already churning on that news thing. I think that's so funny. And just in real, right. To have these news reports checking in from different areas here, what's going on?
AJ Harper (24:25):
What I like about it is this like, old school Mike, which is so self-deprecating. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (24:30):
Just self-deprecating.
AJ Harper (24:30):
To the nth degree. Just exaggerated self-deprecating. But based in reality, you know, especially because you're about to enter a slightly different market.
Mike Michalowicz (24:39):
It'd be funny, someone outside Times Square, uh, the, the Barnes & Nobles, which I think is more toward Columbia Circle or whatever, but someone out there just singing there at three in the morning saying, no, no one here at the store.
AJ Harper (24:53):
You know, that would be funny actually. The one you one is the Union Square Barnes and Noble. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (24:58):
Okay. Yeah. I've been to that one. That one's nice.
AJ Harper (24:59):
That one's the big one that gets the big guess.
Mike Michalowicz (25:02):
Okay. That would be so funny. They walk in, they interview one of the proprietors, uh, how, how the sales doing.
AJ Harper (25:08):
On the other hand, why don't you try and get a book release at Union Square?
Mike Michalowicz (25:14):
Oh, for sure. And that's, that's the flip side, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AJ Harper (25:18):
You could,
Mike Michalowicz (25:20):
Yeah. And, and I'm, now I'm thinking like, this is how the brainstorming goes is why do a traditional launch, why not do like a flash launch, uh, a flash live event in the middle of a, a location as opposed to Yeah. You've seen these things like in Grand Central Station, all of a sudden these people start dancing. Why not have some kind of...
AJ Harper (25:36):
Like a flash mob?
Mike Michalowicz (25:37):
A flash-
AJ Harper (25:37):
A flash launch.
Mike Michalowicz (25:39):
A flash launch.
AJ Harper (25:40):
Oh, that's funny.
Mike Michalowicz (25:41):
You just kind of, kind of blend ideas and then start playing with that. I don't know what that really means.
AJ Harper (25:45):
But let me just say, let me just put another little vote in for you to do the actual party. I personally think you after all this time, should do a dang party.
Mike Michalowicz (25:57):
Yeah.
AJ Harper (25:58):
You know, there's, the celebratory piece is, let's not knock it. The frugal person in you, the ROI metrics is gonna say no to something like that. That doesn't make sense. Right. I'm not doing that. Right. I'm not spending money on that. Right. But have you ever thought that it might be nice?
Mike Michalowicz (26:13):
Just to celebrate. Yeah.
AJ Harper (26:14):
Just have a party. He doesn't, you know, have you even done it just for your nearest and dearest to just come celebrate?
Mike Michalowicz (26:23):
Yeah. You know why I, I'm hesitant to do that. It's like, I don't, I feel like I'm selfishly asking for
recognition of me.
AJ Harper (26:33):
That's okay though.
Mike Michalowicz (26:35):
Hmm. Maybe that's it.
AJ Harper (26:36):
You know... I don't know. Make it a be of service then. If you, if you need to figure it out how to do it, then let it be of service. So how can you take that party and make it something cool? So it's the books, uh, centered around personal finance. How can we make things super useful and valuable for people? How can we give people deals on things? What could we do with partners? With other people, Sponsors? To try and make it so that going to the party, you're actually gonna end up financially better after you leave.
Mike Michalowicz (27:09):
Oh, that's cool. How about that? That's a good spin.
AJ Harper (27:12):
How about that? That's a good spin. Maybe you'd be doing it. You have, maybe you have to find the thing that's gonna make you excited so that it doesn't feel like bragging or super ego driven. I get it. I didn't, I didn't do that either. Do you wanna know about my party? Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (27:28):
AJ Harper (27:31):
You were not. I didn't come online with you. I saw, well, that wasn't a party, that was a live event to, meant to commemorate on virtual. But I did have an in-person thing.
Mike Michalowicz (27:40):
Oh, I was not there.
AJ Harper (27:41):
No, I didn't invite you, but
Mike Michalowicz (27:55):
Okay. That's anybody...
AJ Harper (27:56):
And that's itty bitty party. And that's it. And I told my wife, I just want the cake that has the book cover on it.
Mike Michalowicz (28:02):
Oh, that's cool.
AJ Harper (28:03):
I love those. And to her credit, she actually found one that didn't have, uh, white sugar. Like she found one I could eat. And it was beautiful. And it was in our backyard. And I wanted, um, there's this really great restaurant in West Nyack called Grub. It's this like Asian fusion. I wanted Grub and my, have we been there
Mike Michalowicz (28:22):
Together? I recognize that name.
AJ Harper (28:23):
Okay. We should go though. All right. I'm, and uh, and my really good friend Jenny, she went and picked up the grub. And I have a funny thing, like every time I go pick up Grub, since they always put on the label Jenny, even though it's not, I'm not Jenny because they associate it with my phone number from that one party. And so every time I go, I think about my little dumb party in the backyard, but it was just like eight or nine people and that was it. So I'm just saying do some small thing, Mike. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be ego driven. It could just be your team. Like all the people who are involved in getting a book done to maybe even celebrate them. You know, you've got a big team. You know what I'm saying?
Mike Michalowicz (29:08):
I, um, I did have a book cake, my own book cake, The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur. Krista surprised me. With that. And it was a neighborhood friend and like, we had maybe 20, 30 people over. And yeah, that was pretty cool.
AJ Harper (29:22):
Personally, I think we need to celebrate in some fashion, whatever it is. Even if it's tiny, you know?
Mike Michalowicz (29:30):
Yeah. I, you, there's a note here in the show notes about, um, tipping book sales and you mentioned ones.
AJ Harper (29:36):
What's that? Yeah. So, um, years ago, uh, I attended a book launch, um, at an eWomen event, which is a big event that's down in Dallas. Um, Sandra and Kimia and Sierra.
Mike Michalowicz (29:49):
These are entrepreneurial women. Yeah, I do. I'm aware of the organization. Yeah.
AJ Harper (29:53):
Yeah. So they have this, um, great event, uh, annual event every year in Dallas. And they did a, a couple of books and, uh, they were the book collections, right. And so they had this incredible party at the conference. And so they tied it to all these things so that they got everybody there buying copies of the book. And so they tipped the book sales during that conference week. It became a big central part of that event.
Mike Michalowicz (30:25):
That's smart.
AJ Harper (30:26):
So they tied the launch to an already existing conference and then had a big beautiful party in celebration, got tons of content, but more importantly, they pushed book sales hardcore.
Mike Michalowicz (30:39):
If you can sell 100 books in one day, a hundred distinct orders, it will move you to a best-seller ranking almost in any category that you're in for at least that day, which can be significant to trigger more momentum. So we do these live webinars. I've talked about this in prior episodes, where we do a webinar with another author and we invite the audience to buy the books. And the book rankings improve dramatically. So one argument for a live launch, any marketing mechanism, if you can move a hundred books, that will have an impact on you in, in a short period of time.
AJ Harper (31:19):
Yeah. You can also, you don't have to do it during launch week. So Right. One of my alums, Amy Kemp, she wrote an incredible book called I See You. And the core message of that book is you can't outwork your thought habits. Her party was this, her book released in March and her party was in the summer.
Mike Michalowicz (31:39):
Yeah. And why not have an anniversary? Profit First is having its 10 year anniversary coming up this year. You know, why not have an anniversary celebration or party?
AJ Harper (31:47):
You could, yeah. You could have a big anniversary party get You didn't do the launch before. You didn't do the party before. Do it on the anniversary. Pick any year.
Mike Michalowicz (31:55):
Yeah. Pick any year and why not? Um, go to your now readership and say, have you had success? You were invited to this party.
AJ Harper (32:04):
Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (32:05):
And have people come and gather and they can recognize each other.
AJ Harper (32:08):
Then you'd have to really think, why am I doing that? Yeah. It would have to be connected. I think you'd have to have a really good reason, because if you're going to your readership, they already bought the book.
Mike Michalowicz (32:18):
Right.
AJ Harper (32:18):
What's the incentive? How-- Is it book sales?
Mike Michalowicz (32:23):
Yeah. What, what's the goal? Yeah. So in a scenario like that, the goal may be for them to, to start to pay it forward. Are you willing, says book sales.
AJ Harper (32:33):
Oh yeah. Pay it forward.
Mike Michalowicz (32:34):
Are you willing to get the book to give to someone else? But, but to recognize their accomplishments was so, so interesting with Profit First. We had a situation recently where, uh, a person said, I don't know, my business is stuck and I'm doing Profit First. My business is stuck. So we had one of our coaches here talking with them. They said, well, where were you two years ago? They said, well, I started private first two years ago, I was broke. I had a hundred thousand dollars debt. Like, where are you now? Like, oh, I, I bought my first house. I have no debt
AJ Harper (33:19):
Yeah. Especially if, let's say you are going to do a second edition, or maybe you're gonna have a, an event, a program or something else, you're gonna be pushing you could do it in conjunction with that.
Mike Michalowicz (33:33):
You could do it in conjunction with that, yeah.
AJ Harper (33:33):
Yeah. That could work.
Mike Michalowicz (33:35):
I wonder with live events, how willing people are to travel. Um, it's, it's, as of right now, I'm finding it's harder to fill a room in person. But there's this contrary kind of flow of, of zoom overwhelm. And we're people, I personally, I feel I was just exhausted going on yet another zoom call. Yeah. But there seems to be less people traveling. That could be an economic thing. I just wonder if, if it ebbs and flows, I dunno.
AJ Harper (34:04):
Sure. It ebbs and flows, but I think it's a value proposition. Um, I, I flew out to, and you did too, but you, you were, you know, Casey Compton was, is part of Penned With Purpose. Yes. So I know, I know that she's not, I mean, she's an alum from my workshop, but I flew out there and it was in the middle of nowhere. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Uh, I felt, um, I guess I felt compelled to go, you know? So I think also if you have some sort of value that you're providing or some sort of exclusivity in the event, that's really cool. I think they will go. People will absolutely go.
Mike Michalowicz (34:48):
It was interesting. One thing I thought would be, one thing that was compelling to me was, I can't recall what author it was, but he said, yeah, we're gonna meet at my home and have a celebration there. It wasn't even a book launch, it was something else. And I was like, oh, that's very compelling because I guess there's a more intimate connection behind the scenes. So I'm like, oh, I'll host a party at our, my house. And we organized this, and I think it was like six people who showed interest in that. I was like, oh, I thought that'd be compelling. Like, come to Mike's house, learn, you know, let's get connected. Um, and that went nowhere.
AJ Harper (35:24):
I don't think you can.
Mike Michalowicz (35:27):
Maybe it wasn't, well, there's more thought to it.
AJ Harper (35:28):
There's probably other factors. Because I have been at a celebratory, you have that Profit First party.
Mike Michalowicz (35:35):
Yeah. Oh yeah. That and there's hundreds of people. It's, it's hundreds of people.
AJ Harper (35:37):
I mean, I don't know. I don't,
Mike Michalowicz (35:38):
Yeah. I can't remember what the value the proposition was, and it, it, but it, whatever. I, I just think it, I, whatever. I just gotta think more through that.
AJ Harper (35:46):
I think you have to just decide the value. I mean, I have an editing retreat coming up this fall. On my property. It's the first one. And, uh, and you have to take a plane. I mean, unless you live in the area
Mike Michalowicz (36:11):
Well, here's, here's the value proposition there. It is a, a form of secluding yourself from other aspects of your life. You have an opportunity to be solely focused on the most important thing because of that. And that remoteness, I think, affords that.
AJ Harper (36:27):
Okay. So can that be replicated in a launch party?
Mike Michalowicz (36:31):
Totally. Right? Make it the most remote launch party ever.
AJ Harper (36:54):
Yeah, absolutely. And also, we have to be, it has to be big enough, make enough sense for you to basically be one put on what is, you know, like wedding-level organization,
Mike Michalowicz (37:06):
Right. And the, the costs are not superfluous. Uh, Kasey shared some of the numbers, and I don't feel it's appropriate for me to put on here, but it it was expensive to put that on. Yeah. She did leverage sponsors. So that's one technique you can use. She had, uh, sponsors for food items and so forth to get some exposure for their businesses. Yeah. So can you do something like that?
AJ Harper (37:26):
For sure. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (37:26):
And get support. Yeah,
AJ Harper (37:27):
Absolutely.
Mike Michalowicz (37:28):
Okay. Did we cover all the core stuff?
AJ Harper (37:30):
I think so, but I don't know where you land now. So I, I do wanna say that. I used to say, don't do a launch party an in-person launch party for the same reason you said it, which is, this isn't, there's no ROI, but I was thinking just in terms of actual book sales around the event. And I think now that there is, there's something really important from the, from just the author, what's happening in the author's journey. We haven't said, talked about this at all, but we can't just keep bulldozing through to the next thing. We have to acknowledge our accomplishments. We have to celebrate the people who helped us. We have to share why this is a momentous event. It doesn't have to be, um, super braggy. But I think we too quickly move on and away from saying, Hey, this is a big deal. It's a big deal to finish a book, much less a remarkable book. And I think we need to acknowledge it and then use that opportunity to create momentum, buzz interest, um, uh, marketing assets, et cetera.
Mike Michalowicz (38:39):
Yeah. For the celebratory component, I'm not persuaded, but for, uh, the marketing component, that idea that we created here, kind of like, Hey, Chip reporting in from such and such location is unique. And that becomes buzzworthy. And that's compelling for me. The celebratory thing, it happened again, uh, three days ago.
AJ Harper (39:02):
The lady who screams at you?
Mike Michalowicz (39:03):
No. Oh, no, no. She, I didn't see her this week. Oh, okay. A different person. This was unbelievable. So there was a coffee shop down the road, um, called Java Smugglers, and I was there with Kelsey and Andrea. And, um, some people are sitting there getting up and they walk out. One guy like, looks at me, looks at me and just walks out whatever. I, I, maybe he recognized me, or like a minute later we're talking door opens. That guy comes right to me. He goes, you're Mike Michalowicz. I said, I am. He goes, your book has changed my life. He goes, I was introduced to Profit First just in the last month. And he goes, I've finally, I'm on a path forward. He's like, I just wanted to thank you. He's like, I'm so sorry to interrupt your meeting and stuff. He's like, I just, I just had to tell you. And I, I wanted to tell you, I got scared. So I just walked out. He's like, but I had to come back and tell you. And I, oh my God. To me, that is the greatest celebration in the world. That's so great. And it's on, it's just presents itself. Oh, it's all the juices there for me. Yeah.
AJ Harper (39:58):
You're clearly by looking at-- He looks very, he's very giddy. Giddy. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (40:02):
It's all the juice. So, uh, I'm not persuaded, uh, to have a book launch for a celebration, but I think it's appropriate. I I still question the ROI, so I,
AJ Harper (40:14):
You, you might need a surprise book party.
Mike Michalowicz (40:18):
My God. Seriously? I didn't see it coming.
AJ Harper (40:25):
Mike Michalowicz (40:27):
Where do you land? You're, you're, you're like, do it. Or
AJ Harper (40:30):
I think if you have the means, so I don't think, you know, you know what I mean? I, I don't want anybody going into debt. No. Um, but if you have the means, I now think go, go do some version of it. Okay. It can be small, but, but do something.
Mike Michalowicz (40:47):
So you've contingencies, you're supporting with contingencies. Yeah. Can we say this debate's a tie?
AJ Harper (40:53):
It's a draw.
Mike Michalowicz (40:53):
It's a draw. It's a draw. So the record now. So
AJ Harper (40:55):
I'm technically still the reigning champion.
Mike Michalowicz (40:57):
You are. No, you are. It's 2, 2, 0 and one. We got two wins for aj, zero for Mike. And one draw.
AJ Harper (41:03):
One draw. Okay. Good. Yeah. Good. Okay.
Mike Michalowicz (41:06):
I feel a step closer.
Mike Michalowicz (41:10):
Uh, next week we are gonna update about our, uh, book and how it's going and how things are changing. We got some interviews going on. I'm trying to get some of the next couple weeks I'm on vacation, but we gotta get these interviews in. So Erin's working with Sadé to, to line this up, we're gonna talk more about our process. Uh, and now we're officially in writing season. And I'm already, I'm texting you 'cause I'm chomping the bit
AJ Harper (41:39):
Yeah. Well, you gotta wait just a little minute because you have to let me--
Mike Michalowicz (41:44):
You gotta get your feet under you and get-- Yeah, I understand.
AJ Harper (41:47):
But I will say that, um, the interviews, that's the main thing is just getting them, because we've already, we've just done one now.
Mike Michalowicz (41:55):
Yeah. And we have some historical ones. Remember? Uh, Al Alexis Kingsbury? British guy. He did one.
AJ Harper (42:02):
You Know, we should listen to them again. Yeah. Just for, to refresh. Yeah. I need to ask. I don't know where to find them.
Mike Michalowicz (42:08):
What I thought was profound from our interview yesterday with Vicki is when she said, oh, I've done, I'm not gonna share what she did, but she set up something like, oh, that's the exact same name we have. Yes. It just affirmed something.
AJ Harper (42:22):
It also, uh, the best thing about interviews, and the reason we do them while we're writing is because it shapes the content. So it gets Mike and I thinking, oh, we should think about how to talk about this or that. It's not that the person is giving us an idea that we wanna necessarily replicate. It's more like it gets us thinking about other things, um, that could, we should maybe talk about related to it. And I already have a lot of thoughts. I also am thinking about a new tactic for me, writing-wise.
Mike Michalowicz (42:55):
Oh, good, good. Get me that interview. We gotta put in the script on the transcriber. Um, so let's not forget to do that. And we also have an interview coming up. We have, so I've been implementing this obviously with people. One person says, this is the first time in my life I've been, I can't wait to get into my personal finances every day. And, um, they've tried all the other systems out there, and we're gonna be interviewing that person. So.
AJ Harper (43:20):
Yeah, the interviews are the best.
Mike Michalowicz (43:21):
So we'll be talking about all those updates. Part of the goal of the show is for you to join the journey with us and as we discover stuff to, to share what's working and what's not working. So that'll be next episode. Thanks for joining us today. We hope you got some insights. I'm curious. Email me and AJ at hello@dwtbpodcast.com. Are you gonna do a live launch? And how are you gonna do it? Where do you think we fell in on this debate? Do you give me a win? Finally, also, if you wanna get the free resources, go to dwtbpodcast.com. Here's my big ask for you. Would you please subscribe to the show? Whatever podcaster you're listening on, it's the greatest way you can help us get exposure. The more people subscribe, the more the podcaster promotes, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you as always for joining us today. Thank you for joining us in the future. And as a reminder, don't write that book. Write the greatest book you can.