Are you self-publishing your book and overwhelmed by the costs? Well, do we have a solution for you: Kickstarter! Now, this isn’t the solution for every book, but there are authors who have had great success using it. AJ and Mike discuss a recent Kickstarter success story and why this might be a tool you should utilize too.
Are you self-publishing your book and overwhelmed by the costs? Well, do we have a solution for you: Kickstarter! Now, this isn’t the solution for every book, but there are authors who have had great success using it. AJ and Mike discuss a recent Kickstarter success story and why this might be a tool you should utilize too.
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Books/Resources Mentioned:
AJ Harper, website
AJ’s Socials:
Mike Michalowicz, website
Mike’s Socials:
Mike Michalowicz (00:01.304)
Welcome back to the Don't Write That Book Podcast, where you can learn how to write your bestseller and own your authorship. Follow along with us as we give you an insider's view of the book industry. Now here are your hosts, myself, Mike Michalowicz, and AJ Harper. I want to hear AJ the most bastardized pronunciation of your last name. It's so simple, but I am sure people even mess up Harper.
AJ Harper (00:28.032)
No, nobody I mean the most I would get would be Parker.
Mike Michalowicz (00:32.12)
How do you get a
AJ Harper (00:33.368)
They just hear it wrong. But that nobody messes that up. They miss up my name. My name is Anjanette.
Mike Michalowicz (00:40.321)
yeah, how's that give me a few, lay on me.
AJ Harper (00:41.154)
And run that down for you.
Antoinette.
Mike Michalowicz (00:46.446)
I already love it. Yeah.
AJ Harper (00:48.97)
Anjonet, Annette. the misspellings are big. So for instance, if a person is say so you're in a waiting room and you're waiting for someone to call your name. When the person comes up and they look at the name and they go, they're they'd hesitate, I say it's me. Because I know they're struggling to pronounce the name.
Mike Michalowicz (01:13.044)
Me.
AJ Harper (01:17.842)
Antoinette, Annette, Anjonette, Angie. yeah. I g I there's so many different lines of my name.
Mike Michalowicz (01:29.674)
Chinae.
AJ Harper (01:30.764)
I've definitely had well, my my German teacher, Hair Sok, would always call me Agunetta. Yeah. And I would say, it's actually a French name. And he would say, I don't care.
Mike Michalowicz (01:44.622)
I love when people tell me how to pronounce my name. So they're like Yeah, yeah. So my last name, Mikalowitz. That's how we choose to pronounce it. And w I'm gonna share why we're doing this name thing.
AJ Harper (01:51.527)
Use yours takes the cake.
AJ Harper (02:01.422)
What do you mean we choose to pronounce it? Is there not is there a
Mike Michalowicz (02:05.154)
Well, I have cousins who pronounce it Mike Hallowitz, so we pronounce it Mythalowicz, Michaelowitz. There is someone else in New Jersey that pronounced it Michael Michaelowitz. can you imagine Michael Michelowitz? God. So but I love it when someone's like, no, that is a Polish name. It's Michalowicz or Michalovich. Sure. So you're pronouncing it incorrectly, Mike. And the reality is, however the owner of that name pronounces it.
Is the pronunciation for their name? So we're gonna be talking about an author today, and we wanted to make sure that we pronounced their name perfectly. And I said, it's pronounced Gagnard, because that's the quote proper French pronunciation. Yeah. And you said, No, the way they pronounce it. So we have to find them pronouncing their name. And it was Gaynard is how they pronounced their name.
AJ Harper (02:59.382)
Yeah. we it's Jason who wrote Community Made, who I know. I know. But you but you know what we don't we don't always say, Hi Jason, it's Anchinette Harper talking to you right now. You know, we don't Yeah. We don't we don't say that. So you have to go you have to go listen to how people introduce themselves.
Mike Michalowicz (03:13.726)
You don't say our last name.
Mike Michalowicz (03:20.248)
Today we're gonna about using Kickstarter to fund your book, which is something I've never done. I am really curious about today's episode. I might have
AJ Harper (03:29.984)
Rock that. That's something you could rock.
Mike Michalowicz (03:32.31)
I think I think so. I think so. and and in the the initial interest in writing the next book is starting to kind of percolate. It's definitely not there yet, but I'm really curious about today's episode. You are listening to Don't Write That Book. I'm joined in virtual studio with AJ Harper. My name is Mike McAllowitz. AJ is at her vacation. Do you call it a vacation home? Or what do you call what do you call it? Like
AJ Harper (04:00.546)
Lake House?
Mike Michalowicz (04:02.272)
It's at our lake house in Madeline and this is Madeline Island. This is probably the last episode this season that you'll be recording from there. no, we're gonna do another one.
AJ Harper (04:11.314)
Yeah, we do a bonus in a little bit. Heading home.
Mike Michalowicz (04:14.35)
Then you're heading home.
AJ, what I admire about you, I I know I've said this in a prior episode, but you manifest dreams. And I remember you talking about this. I remember the Lake House as a vision. I remember when you committed to the property and we started talking about it. I remember you building this house. I remember the flooding that you recently had. And you you went back and you and you're you're fixing it, you're rebuilding it the way it needs to be done to to manifest that vision. When you have a vision.
You're a little bit like a I don't know what what kind of like a like a like a s animal that kinda latches in and doesn't let go. Wolverine. Wolverine. I was say Tasmanian devil, so we kind of in the same theme.
AJ Harper (04:58.476)
But is the Tasmanian devil doing anything? Is he just spinning around?
Mike Michalowicz (05:02.914)
Well, the cartoon, but I I heard you don't want to mess with those
AJ Harper (05:05.966)
It's true, but I don't know if he's working toward a goal.
Mike Michalowicz (05:09.518)
That's a great question. I I don't I don't know. But once you latch on, like you you don't give up. Come hell or high water. And ironically, you had both. So that's and and high water. So I just truly admire that devotion to a vision that you have in manifesting it.
AJ Harper (05:19.042)
Lots of hell.
AJ Harper (05:29.496)
Thank you. You have you have the same dedication. I've said this story many times after I quit ghostwriting for years. I would get multiple times a week. People asking me to ghostwrite for them. Basically, they wanted me to they wanted to be you. And they figured if they could get me, they could be you. That's not true. This is Mike's his own person. but also.
The reason that it would always come in, I I did the wrong thing. I would engage in these conversations with why was saying no when no was enough and I should have just ended the call. But they would say, Why not? And I'd say, Well, because I know that Mike is gonna see it through and follow through and hustle and sell that book. And then of course they would say, Well, I'm gonna do that. Like, no, you're not. No, no, you're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're there's only one Mike.
the only only person I've ever entered into a partnership with in all of the books I wrote is you. And that's because if I knew this person means what they say.
Mike Michalowicz (06:34.722)
Thank you for saying that. That really that really means the world to me. and we're we're not even at the halfway point with the marketing. I'm I'm so ready to crank it up even further. And I love exploring things I've never done before. and the Kickstarter, this this intrigues me. But before we dig into the content of today's episode, I do want to thank our unpaid sponsor, which is Simplified in imprint with page two. If you are an author,
aspiring or established in the entrepreneurial space. And you have a concept that radically simplifies that concept or that that execution of of whatever the idea is. I think simplified is someone for you to consider and for simplified for us to consider you. So reach out, just Google Simplified page two, you'll find us and apply. There's no guarantee that it will be a fit, but at least it'll start the conversation.
AJ also you have a a master class coming up. Is that still available? What's going on?
AJ Harper (07:38.318)
Yeah, it's called ma I do these things called Mastercraft. mas their deep dive into some component of authorship. So for example, I might do I've done one on just chapter one. I've done one on just pulling stories from interviews. And I'm doing one that's by request from my community. I normally don't do them in December, but I'm doing it. And it's on how to design your bulk by incentives for your launch, but also beyond. And that's on December third.
Mike Michalowicz (07:41.634)
Mr. Kraft.
AJ Harper (08:07.904)
It's free to members. So if you're one of my if you're part of my membership community, you can come for free. And otherwise there's a fee. Go to AJ.harp AJ Harper.com to learn more about it.
Mike Michalowicz (08:19.84)
Amazing. This episode, just like all the episodes, is how how they come about is sometimes I throw some ideas your way, you so you throw ideas my way, we kick them around. and other episodes you've just been inspired to say, We we've gotta talk about this. And this is one of those episodes. So how'd this come about?
AJ Harper (08:38.114)
Well, I've been wanting to talk about Kickstarter for a long time. I've been studying it. It's really popular in fiction with indie authors to do Kickstarters to fund their books. And sometimes it involves special editions, which we've talked about on the podcast before. And then I noticed that someone I know in in the thought leadership community did it. And I thought, okay, let's let's talk about this because it's pretty cool.
Mike Michalowicz (09:05.87)
So w what's the book? Who's the author? Give us the logistics and details.
AJ Harper (09:11.956)
Jason Ganyard, Ganyard. See, we just did it. Yeah. Jason, I apologize. I'm sure you've heard it a million times. but he wrote Community Made, and it's about relationships and how you build it and nurture and and you leverage those relationships. And what he did was he put the book on Kickstarter to fund it, but it's also a marketing tool. So it's a self published book, and his goal.
Mike Michalowicz (09:15.711)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
AJ Harper (09:41.26)
was to have to raise thirty-five thousand one hundred and ten dollars. I'm actually I should ask him why that number. Yeah. but he actually ended up raising two hundred and nine thousand seventy-four dollars, which is means he was five hundred and ninety-three percent funded on Kickstarter. And he he blew through that initial thirty-five K real fast. I wanna say it was in just a day or a couple days.
Eventually he sold twenty one thousand two hundred and fifty seven copies.
Mike Michalowicz (10:15.892)
through the Kickstarter campaign alone.
AJ Harper (10:18.518)
Yeah, that's how many books he sold.
Mike Michalowicz (10:20.974)
My gosh. And just bring me up to speed on Kickstarter and its relationship to books, does that mean that he secured this money, this funding prior to the book even being printed?
AJ Harper (10:36.546)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (10:38.776)
How how much prior can you go?
AJ Harper (10:42.35)
Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (10:45.783)
And again, part of my ignorance about Kickstarter, but is this i it's open to anyone who's interested in this book or do you start with a community or there pockets? Like d do you can you
AJ Harper (10:57.422)
Okay, so you so you wanna you wanna you use it to fund your project. So, you know, it's often for products, right? So we're gonna make this product. If you wanna if you wanna invest in the Kickstarter, then you get some sort of perk for being an early adopter.
Mike Michalowicz (11:12.462)
So what would be a a typical perk? Is there such a thing as a typical perk?
AJ Harper (11:16.866)
Well, for books, it would be usually there's several bundles. So actually, I'm gonna pull up his Kickstarter while we're talking. We'll put it in the show notes so you guys can go check it out. but he had quite it's called making it's c they're called rewards. So for ex so for example, here he has you can get five books plus four live sessions with Jason. So he's got a group live thing you can do and you pay.
Mike Michalowicz (11:24.962)
That's a good idea.
AJ Harper (11:47.042)
This is in Canadian dollars. 138 Canadian, but $97 American. That's one. You can get you can get seven-day access to his community-made book. It's that one is six dollars. And it goes on and on. There's digital trio, hardcover trio, one thousand-hour author package. That's where he's breaking down his whole author process. That one's $383. And it just goes on and on and on.
there's quite a few different rewards. And the the largest one is $9,126, which is an exclusive spot at his MMT event. And that is five first edition hardcovers, digital trio, plus a ticket to Mastermind Talks twenty twenty-seven, et cetera, MMT, which is an invite-only gathering, on and on, ninety five hundred bucks-ish. So
You can do so these are just like remember how we we said I'm doing the Mastercraft on bulk by incentives. So it's the same stuff that you're doing, Mike, when you do bulk by incentives in pre order, but it's on Kickstarter.
Mike Michalowicz (12:58.786)
That's so interesting. So when we launch a book, we typically we always have a multi-book purchase page, a bulk order page, and we'll have quantities of say one, three, seven, twenty-five, and maybe maybe the big one for a hundred books. So it sounds similar or if not identical. The only difference is the platform is is is a public platform as opposed to your own contained one.
AJ Harper (13:24.876)
Yes. And I think for him it made sense because his book is about relationships. So it was leveraging, he's basically demonstrating how you take relationships and your network and you can then leverage them into this in this project because it he would not have been as successful if he didn't have these established relationships. It's really important to be clear about that. It's not like you put your book up on Kickstarter, people find it and it explodes. It's not like that.
But the cool thing about Kickstarter is it has that that whole it's it feels like it's its own thing that you're funding. There's a different vibe than if you say, here are my bulk by incentives. See what I'm saying? You're an investor and you know, you're trying to, he's trying to get to his 35k, and we all want to help get to the 35k. And there's that's just a whole different vibe than if you were saying, here are some.
Mike Michalowicz (14:05.454)
I like You're an investor almost.
AJ Harper (14:23.062)
incentives you can get for buying my book in bulk.
Mike Michalowicz (14:26.444)
I remember reading a case study around fundraising and they talked about the classic community fundraiser where they have a thermometer and so say they're raising to get the new baseball field and they have a thermometer. They said more people donate once it passes the halfway point. So what you should do is pre raise at least half the funds in some capacity and show that so it's integral, but show that very quickly on and you'll get momentum.
Mm-hmm. It do you believe that's the case here, that people want to support the thirty-five thousand, but as he was approaching it, perhaps quickly, then there's momentum like, hey, how far can we crush this?
AJ Harper (15:07.202)
goal. Yeah. Then you want to and also when you you want to be part of something that's successful already. And my gosh, that's so cool. You want to go check it out. And he was doing promotion even pat way past crushing that. He kept going and going and going and going up until the close of the Kickstarter because you have this window of time when it so you can't invest in it anymore. You have a period of time when you can invest in it. Then
Mike Michalowicz (15:32.029)
I see.
AJ Harper (15:36.386)
He has that those funds to do what he needs to do to deliver all the rewards. Okay. Okay. And they're called rewards. So it's a totally different way of looking at it that I think is pretty cool. Plus, you're with, you can see the other people. So it's kind of like when you do a GoFundMe and you choose to have your name on the people that that donated. So you can put your name, you can put messages. So it becomes something that you're you're part of a group of people.
versus a silent person who did a bulk buy.
Mike Michalowicz (16:09.936)
Do you communicate with the funders as the process is going on?
AJ Harper (16:16.45)
Yeah. So there's you can communicate with the funders who have already participated. And I've I bought, I invested. I just I didn't do one of the big packages, but I wanted the book. So I thought, okay, let me get something. I really want to read this. And so they g they send me an email and say, here's where we are in the process. This, you know, and you know when the book is gonna ship based you have to tell people rewards will be delivered this month. But it could be a it could be a year from now.
Mike Michalowicz (16:47.49)
Wow. Okay. Wow. So you can do that so early on. it's funny. I was we we work with a small publishing house. There's a boutique one called Inspired Girl, owned by Jennifer Tuma-Young, and Scar Tissue by Melissa Dugalecki is one of their books, and they share this concept of you can get pre orders a year in advance or or six months in advance, and it funds then the printing and so forth.
Is that something you disclose in like the use of funds when people are funding you through Kickstarter? I know they get the benefits, the bonuses, but do you tell we're gonna use these funds to buy books, et cetera, et cetera.
AJ Harper (17:29.762)
Yeah, you just say what you're what you're trying to do. And you know, if you actually go to his Kickstarter page, you can see how he adjusted it as he went on. So for example, I'm looking at it right now and it says 236% funded in 24 hours, right? Wow. Yeah. He says, We launched on a whim, no real marketing plan, no paid promotion, just an ask. The Kickstarter hit its goal within an hour. Within an hour. Okay, I didn't know that.
And doubled in less than twenty four. My God. And he says, Why all the support? That's what this book is about. So you see how this was the right
Mike Michalowicz (18:07.07)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Totally. What what if you don't achieve your funding goal? What if you didn't get that thirty five thousand?
AJ Harper (18:14.994)
I have to look up what all of the consequences are, but you're not gonna get the funding. It's kinda like, you know, you have to reach the goal to
Mike Michalowicz (18:21.902)
That's why that's why I thought. Like if if you don't achieve the goal, the money is returned to the funders, I think. Yeah. Okay.
AJ Harper (18:27.596)
And you have to be good about also delivering on all your rewards when you say you're going to.
Mike Michalowicz (18:33.74)
Yeah, I've actually heard of cases like that. And that's much more difficult to navigate that someone has been properly funded. There was a product I remember out there. And then the person that received those funds had an obligation to manufacture it and struggled with it and they failed to deliver. And I don't know what the consequences are there.
AJ Harper (18:54.156)
the cool thing is with books it's not that hard, right? You you can get a print quote, you can figure it out. It's not that difficult. I did have a conversation with with Jason after this because he had so many books. I met I messaged him and I said, you realize that you if you do this a certain way, you know, through book pal or porch light, then you can get these books will be counted on book scan. And if you want to hit a national bestseller list, you probably could.
Mike Michalowicz (18:57.186)
Yeah, it's so much easier.
AJ Harper (19:24.354)
But he wasn't thinking about it, you know? He was just thinking about how am I gonna what's the best way to get these books out? And so I said, I can talk to you about it because there's all these distribution things. So I had a little chat with him. I don't know what he ultimately decided. We'll see. but twenty one thousand books? Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (19:44.602)
tell me some other benefits. So we so you get tons of pre orders, you you can potentially get on a list if that's what you're pursuing. Is there other benefits?
AJ Harper (19:52.12)
Well, the buzz. It's like a launch before the launch. Yeah. So everybody n is and we already perceive perceive his book as successful. That's the other thing. The book's not even out. We already think it's good.
Mike Michalowicz (19:55.267)
Yeah.
Mike Michalowicz (20:05.398)
Yeah. And and he self published. It may have caught the eye of traditional publishers that maybe he wants to do the old double dip and introduces them. I mean
AJ Harper (20:13.646)
And if you told a publisher, Mike, that you sold twenty one thousand books on a Kickstarter, they they're gonna sign you for something.
Mike Michalowicz (20:22.528)
I remember I I think you were there there at that meeting where Penguin invited me. I think you were there. Now I i i it's I'm a little cloudy when they said talk about how you do the marketing, you I think you were in that meeting.
AJ Harper (20:34.126)
It was probably also the one where we got scolded.
Mike Michalowicz (20:36.822)
We got scolded and Will, I can't remember his last name, who was the head of marketing. Will Weiser. He goes, ca I said, you can get email addresses from Amazon. He goes, No, you can't. I said, You absolutely can. He goes, They don't provide that. I said, sell your book. You sell your book through the used books and they give you they give you the mailing address and the name of the person.
And then when you ship the book, say, Hey, do you want to sign up for a list? And it's a pretty easy list build. He's like, you know, it's like a little I I w th so so I'm I'm having a Will Weiser moment now about Kickstarter. There's a note here you say that you can get email addresses for these folks that bought your book. Yeah, blah blah blah blah blah. Like that's huge. Did they just provide it to you, or do you have to ask for that? how's that work?
AJ Harper (21:24.728)
Mm-hmm.
AJ Harper (21:30.904)
Do you know? I ha I have to look into that. I don't and I'm not prepared for that question.
Mike Michalowicz (21:34.764)
Okay. Well it's an amazing result that you can get it. Hey, what what would be the reasons not to do Kickstarter? 'Cause I I think I I'm fired up instantly and bet you may
AJ Harper (21:43.198)
No, you need to think about it 'cause I feel like you could do it. So this is you could look at your face.
Mike Michalowicz (21:48.258)
I know, I'm like I'm jazzed. Your eyes are eyes are rolling around.
AJ Harper (21:49.89)
You you're like you're having the buzz. That's it's like someone plugged you into the wall, to the wall socket.
Mike Michalowicz (21:57.102)
Part of it's that we started at six in the mor or six thirty this morning.
AJ Harper (21:59.562)
No, it's marketing. It's what fuels you. The possibility of selling something is what jet gets you up in the morning.
Mike Michalowicz (22:06.094)
That's true. W wh why would I not want to do this? Or someone?
AJ Harper (22:10.072)
So it's great for you because you have an established community. So you have an audience, you have a following. If you're virtually unknown, this is gonna be a real disappointment. you've gotta be able to send people there. You've got to be able to get people to go, you've got to be able to drive people to the Kickstarter page. The Kickstarter page needs to be awesome, but you number one, have to get people to go to it. Yeah. So it's, you know, I'm sure there are people who do go on Kickstarter and scope around.
and stumble and discover things, but that's not the norm. The norm what you're doing is you're driving your existing community. So if you have a community, then go ahead.
Mike Michalowicz (22:52.12)
Do you think in Jason's case that that two hundred plus thousand dollars he raised was all from his community, or did it spark a cascade of awareness?
AJ Harper (23:01.55)
I think probably sparked a cascade of awareness and he leveraged people who were speaking out for him. You know, the same way you do with a launch. The the other reason you might not do it is if you don't want to spend so much so much time doing the it's like a launch and then another launch.
Mike Michalowicz (23:17.666)
That's right. That's right. Because this is before the book is publicly available. So don't if you don't have a community risky, don't do it. you're gonna do d two launches, so that's effectively double the work. Any other reasons to avoid
AJ Harper (23:31.476)
I would say if you didn't finish the book, don't do this if you are not actually like seriously, the book should be you should know what this book is, inside and out. Maybe you're still revising it a little bit. You could be in the very end stages of editing, but you should not just have an idea for a book and then throw I mean, I guess I okay. I guess you could do it also as a test to see if people are into it. You could use it as a
test if you really want to go to that trouble. But I don't know, man. It scares me. how long it takes people to finish books and how books everything can go wrong and so forth. That would scare me. I think you should be pretty far along with the book.
Mike Michalowicz (24:15.842)
I wonder if it could put a stain on the book's reputation if you can't fulfill the Kickstarter minimum quota, the dollar amount you said.
AJ Harper (24:23.978)
I would say too. So so do you want to do a low, you know, you wanna pick a number that's doable. Can can Jason get thirty five K? Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. In in his world, that's not gonna be that hard.
Mike Michalowicz (24:37.24)
Yeah, but for w someone listening in, maybe the threshold should be five K or ten K. It should be a number that you know you can get. and then you gotta fulfill these orders in some way. If you're doing it through a traditional publisher, I think that becomes very difficult. you're probably gonna have to buy your own books and then
AJ Harper (24:55.062)
Be so hard. Yeah. Yeah. You could negotiate with your publisher and say, I'm gonna do a Kickstarter. So for the books that are sold through Kickstarter, I want a better break because usually authors get between 40 and 50% off list. Yeah. So you could say for my Kickstarter, I want books at cost. Yeah. And then negotiate that in your contract so that it then becomes easier. It's to their publisher's benefit.
Mike Michalowicz (25:21.994)
as per Seth Godin famously did a Kickstarter. I I I want to say he raised a million dollars or more. And he, I believe, was with the traditional publisher at the time. So I I don't don't count that as fact. Dou double check that. But if that's the case, at least that's proof that you can do this for the traditional publisher too, to your point.
AJ Harper (25:43.084)
Yeah, you would just you just want to negotiate the discount that you get as an author.
Mike Michalowicz (25:48.038)
Set me up to DBC pardon me. Let me try it again. Set me I don't know what that was. Set me up to be successful. I I gotta set me up to be successful. It's like Shelly selling seashells by the seashore. I gotta be careful. So set me up to be successful here. What would be the things I could do to have a good Kickstarter launch?
AJ Harper (26:07.394)
Well, like we said, you're gonna treat it like its own launch. So you're not gonna put it up and then just hope people find it. You that is a big pitch. It's a big giant pitch. And then you've got to drive people to it. So be totally focused on it. You don't wanna have a million other things that you're doing. You gotta fo let the Kickstarter be the main focus until you're funded. It's that it's its own animal. Come up with really cool incentive packages. So again, they're like the bulk by packages that we've been talking about.
But you can do cool things, fun things that people might want. And you might be more focused on what can I do for smaller buyers? I I was really interested in Jason had that whole eight, it was six dollars just to have just to get a peek of the book for seven days. So cool. It's so weird.
Mike Michalowicz (26:56.672)
So inj I never heard of such a thing. That's so interesting.
AJ Harper (26:59.83)
So you it's not just bulk buys then. It's think of it not like bulk buys, but like what are cool things I could do? You know, what are so when in fiction for fiction kickstarters, I see a lot of stuff that's like special edition with like gold edges and special illustrations and you know, so stuff that you can't get in stores. Exclusivity, I think, is is pretty big. But have fun and play around with it. Give them it's stuff people want cool things.
Mike Michalowicz (27:30.198)
I remember in the legal space with PDFs, you know, that special formatted file that's like a paper document but's electronic, that you could put expiration times and dates on it. So I love that idea of like, here's the book for seven days. You just send a PDF and then it auto locks or kind of like mission impossible burns up. I wonder if you could do it for like you know, one penny for one minute or something like that. Something just absurd.
AJ Harper (27:51.65)
That's so cool, right?
Mike Michalowicz (27:59.25)
that's interesting. Okay. So have cool incentives, tree it zone launch, other things to be successful.
AJ Harper (28:06.656)
Yeah. So of course we talk about it. You got to promote the heck out of it. That's part of treating it like its own launch. And part of that is leveraging your relationships to help you promote the heck out of it. So just as you would with the launch for your book, you know, get your people involved. But then keep in mind, are you giving, are you asking them for too many things? So yeah. Right? So you've got people that you can ask, but they don't, do they want to promote the Kickstarter and when the book comes out?
You're gonna have to do some thinking. Like, who am I asking to do what? because it's gonna be maybe too much. So if I said to you, Mike, hey, promote you'd probably do both for me. But if it was someone that you didn't know very well that wasn't part of your inner circle, you'd be like, okay, I can't do both of these things.
Mike Michalowicz (28:51.734)
You know, we're it's i it's so interesting. This is a corporate sponsor for the MM brand who were a fan of their offering, but they're starting to put in these demands for market us, market us, market us so aggressively that Andrew said we're pulling the ripcord and we're gonna stop this relationship. And that's true in any relationship. This is a you corpor this is a business relationship, but this is true in any relationship. If you put so many demands on a certain point, the other party's gonna rip that cord.
And I've seen authors do this. There's certain relationships I have with authors that simply like, sell me, Mike, sell me, sell me. And and that becomes problematic at a certain point.
AJ Harper (29:30.848)
It does. By the way, I just have to stop you. Did you just say the MM brand?
Mike Michalowicz (29:36.236)
Yeah. Yeah. Well th we call it the McAllow brand in house. It's just it's too many variables. So what b what people need to realize is you know, Mike McAllow, it's is yes, that's my name, but there is a brand that's separate from who I am as a person.
AJ Harper (29:38.038)
Is that what you guys are saying now?
AJ Harper (29:56.344)
Get a logo that just says like MM. I don't know. I just find this funny because you used to say McAliverse.
Mike Michalowicz (29:58.742)
MM MM MM
Mike Michalowicz (30:04.659)
Well, we still say that. Yeah. The McAliverse is all of the companies that we own and we've invested in all these different things. The McCalab brand is this person, me, who is an author out there providing entrepreneurial education. But internally, we got to say that because it it's often conflated. They like the team will say, hey, Mike, here's what, here's what we're doing for your books. I'm like, these are yes, I'm the guy who wrote this with AJ.
But it it's our books. It's it's i it it's a brain out. It's almost like I can't think in the I had Quaker Oats this morning, so the the the person on the front of the Quaker Oats, I don't know
AJ Harper (30:45.774)
Who's that dude?
Mike Michalowicz (30:47.938)
Who is it? The question is, is it is it a dude? I don't even know that.
AJ Harper (30:51.734)
I thought it was a dude. It's like an older dude.
Mike Michalowicz (30:54.476)
Maybe. I don't know. But he's a Quaker or or or they're I should say they they are they are a Quaker. I assume. I assume. But nonetheless, they are the brand face of representation, but there's a whole organization behind it. And so we say the MM brand to say that internally, so we really understand, yeah, there's a face to us, but it really is a comprehensive offering of many people doing many things. So I d I I digress. So we we've talked about promoting the heck out of it. We talked about leveraging relationships.
Pactfully. you mentioned about the financial goal and I thought that was interesting. If you set it too high, you you lose it all. Can you can you set it too low?
AJ Harper (31:37.71)
That's silly. Cause you want to tie it to the purpose. So when I've seen a lot of fiction Kickstarters, it says, I need, you know, $7,300 and I'll be using it to record the audiobook. You know? So whatever, whatever that is. I think you want to be real specific about the amount and be honest about the amount. And then you need to figure out what is it gonna cost? So don't just pick a number out of thin air.
Mike Michalowicz (32:02.21)
I wanna double score or double click on that. That specificity is everything because it shows that you aren't picking a rando number, that this is real, it's tied into something. Show the proof behind it. This is what the funds will be used for, and this is how I came up with the number. And then the goal is is real. When you pick a random number, we're raising twenty five thousand or a hundred thousand. We know by default it's arbitrary because there's no specificity. So I think specificity is your ally.
AJ Harper (32:31.778)
I just need to stop you for a moment because I felt like we had to answer the Quaker Oats dilemma. And I Googled it. Is it's not a real person, but made to look like a Quaker of the as in the religion, right? Okay. Yeah. Because of the values of Quakers. Yeah. But the people who started the company are not Quakers. And this is the part you're gonna like internally at Quaker Oats. He's known as Larry.
Mike Michalowicz (32:38.231)
Okay. Is it a man?
Mike Michalowicz (32:59.79)
Ho ho ho That's awesome.
AJ Harper (33:01.646)
I know. Now you now when you look at that you can say hey Larry. What's up? Hey Larry.
Mike Michalowicz (33:07.256)
Good, haven't seen you while, Lar. I enjoy Quaker Oats at least three times a week, four times a week. I think it is not sponsored not yet. Larry is not sponsored yet. It is a superior product. It really does. yeah, so I love it. What else do we do with preparing to be successful? Anything else?
AJ Harper (33:27.928)
Just just make sure that you can tell what are you gonna do if it's really successful like Jason's? He did not expect to sell twenty one thousand books, I can tell you that. So now he has to figure out how to print them, deliver them, ship them, all of that stuff. That's on him. So you need a few contingency plans, I think.
Mike Michalowicz (33:48.952)
Can I give you a contingency story? Sure. I met with Brent and Josh, that are the founders of Beekman 1802. Yeah. The Beakman boys as they go by. What a lovely, lovely couple, by the way. Just my my wife and I want to go out and spend time with these guys. They're just awesome. And Josh and and Brent were sharing a story where they went on QVC or the equivalent home shopping network type of thing.
They promote their soap product. They insist and talk about being unique and coming up with cool incentives. They insist to bring the goats on television and the show is resistant to it. Like no one's ever brought live animals on, but they acquiesce. And now they have these little baby goats that they're holding around and they're explaining how the process is of of turning goat milk into soap. The demand explodes, but then they have a fulfillment problem. Right. They go back to their town and like
We literally have to pack up this soap and ship it out. And we we don't have enough manpower. The community stepped up and they brought me to the table in their dining room that the whole community was sitting around filling these orders for them. Yeah. And the contingency was they embraced the town before the town embraced them. And it's called Sharon Springs, the name of the town. It's a very small town. it's a conservative town, and they're a gay couple moving in, so they're kind of the oddities.
AJ Harper (34:59.294)
I love that.
Mike Michalowicz (35:16.77)
But also they're a big business in a town that doesn't s have or ever had big business. But they embraced the community. They were just, they're such loving people. and they did things to support the community. And then the the big hit comes on QVC and the community rallies. I mean, just rallied around them packaging stuff. So they maybe unintentionally, but they had a contingency plan. Just wanted to share that story.
AJ Harper (35:40.63)
Love that story. I would I would have gone over to their house. I would have been like Me too. I love it. I love a group effort like that. That's so fun.
Mike Michalowicz (35:48.428)
yeah, working through the night. Drinking tea. Make a soap. anything else?
AJ Harper (35:51.926)
We're just
Yeah, just I think just then realize that this is an opportunity when you do get a supporter, so an investor, in the Kickstarter, that that's your opportunity to stay in touch with them, to build buzz about the book, to build relationships with those people, to to not see that as the end of it, but to see it as the beginning of a relationship.
Mike Michalowicz (36:15.478)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, communication's always key. Just keep talking. Keep talking. Anything else you want to talk about before we wrap this episode up?
AJ Harper (36:24.298)
No, but if you guys decide to do a Kickstarter, let us know. We'd love we'd love to hear about it.
Mike Michalowicz (36:29.388)
Yeah, and we and we'd love to maybe diagnose it on on our show. So yeah, give us a heads up. By the way, you can email us. We're getting quite a few emails in consistently now, but just in case you don't have it, it's hello at DWTB podcast dot com. Also at DWTB podcast dot com. It's all the resources we have freely available for you, all prepared by none other than AJ Harper. So download those. AJ, you always have cool stuff going on.
I invite people to go to AJ Harper dot com. Any other things you have in addition to the mastercraft that you want?
AJ Harper (37:06.222)
Always we're yeah, we're always I'm we have mastercrafts that we do all year round. So if you go to the website you can learn all about what the mastercrafts will be for twenty twenty seven. You can see the retreat dates for twenty twenty seven and so on and so forth. Yeah, we also have stuff going on.
Mike Michalowicz (37:24.5)
And right now, go get her book, write a must read. It is gold. Gold. I was showing someone yesterday because I have your book. I have a shelf in my office that says read, like it's R E A D. It's a shelving system and each letter is like a bookshelf itself. You're in the E and I have a stack of about five books there that are first print off it's like right off the original print box that we receive at home.
When you publish a new book, you get that first box in and it's been personally autographed and y you're one of the books, you were kind enough to give me one of those. So I have that position there and I was showing an author.
AJ Harper (38:03.778)
Imagine though if I didn't give you one.
Mike Michalowicz (38:06.198)
I'd be so offended. I'd be so hurt. I'd be like, we're never doing this podcast again, AJ. You want to know why? You'd be like, why? I'm not because you hurt my feelings. All right, my friends. you know what to do, you know where to go, and make sure you subscribe to the show. We have more folks joining us every day, and we would love for you to be a subscriber. And selfishly, it does support us in getting the word out. All right, you know the rule. Don't write that book. Write the greatest book.
AJ Harper (38:12.974)
I tell you.